What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

[JMSA]

I don’t know, I guess it just saddens me that she holds this negative view of the world already. I received this text from her tonight:

I feel so enraged by the Epstein files. It is like documented proof men are evil. This is what men will do when they have power and think they will get away with it because that’s their nature. The poor woman and kids, it’s sick.

I’m fed up of saying ‘it’s not all men’.
She really hasn’t known many nice teenage boys. I daresay social media has heavily coloured her view too. I don’t want to dismiss her feelings but don’t want to encourage the notion that all men are evil!

It’s so pathetic isn’t it? It’s genuinely shameful to be so prepared to throw women under the bus like this for male approval.

By saying "it's not all men" you're doing just that.

I really hope my daughter feels this way at 13-25! Once her brain is fully matured she will be able to discern the good from the bad far more effectively and I'd rather some jumped up little douchbag didn't traumatise her before she's even had a chance to fully grow.

I love your response to her - and good on you for raising such a strong minded young woman. I hope you'll relax on the "not all men" and perhaps reframe it to "I totally hear you, it's a good job their are a few nice ones - I do respect when I see a man calling out another man, helps to know he won't lower his standards just because he's also male" this will help her to look for the 'good' in the men who genuinely deserve it.

Also be mindful that her opinion will include the fact she knows her father is a cheat - that must be a difficult thing to manage.

A recent piece of research in Australia using anonymous reporting, found that 15% of men would have sex with an under 18 if there were no consequences - that’s almost 1 in 6 of them. That’s not a small number. Almost 1 in 10 of them admitted sexually offending against children. Not a small number. We want it to be true that it’s a small number but research evidence does not reflect that.

It really is sad. And frankly they genuinely don't need her falling over herself to defend them. They really are doing fine, which makes it even sadder. It's a pointless show of slavish devotion to a sex that doesn't care; a show of needless subjugation.

And it begs the question: why do we not constantly hear about the “small” numbers of women who are harming, raping and abusing in these news stories? Where are all these women who are behaving the same way? And conflating a genuine and understandable fear of male violence with racism is a disgusting take, but often trotted out by misogynists.

Good! It sounds like she’ll have high standard for herself! Wish I’d had that attitude at her age - it would have saved me years of kissing utter frogs.

This post makes me feel sick. The world feels like it's burning some days. And as a man, I instantly want to say 'it's not all men', but then I have also learnt that it's not my place to try and convince you but try and be one of the few good examples for my daughters. My view is increasingly feminist every day, as I strive for equality and a better place. I'm glad I have strong women in my family like my mum and sister for me to talk to for their POV on the world. Personally I would say, it's not your place to convince her she's wrong, but to praise her on being cautious in a dangerous world and showing her love, so that she recognises it when the right guy with the right principles enters her life.

only read OP. May i be the 94th person to say stop saying not all men and listen to your daughter?

I wouldn't feel too sad for your husband, DS and FiL. For every woman who 'hates men' there are scores of others who will defend, protect, pander and fawn over them. Men are still far more loved, exhalted, praised and cared for by women, often to the detriment and self sacrifice of the woman herself than they are hated.
The occasional woman may decide to avoid them, but its vanishingly unlikely that will translate to any harm being done to them. Your husband may have to meet with his female colleagues with the door open, but if thats the most thats asked of him to make a woman feel safe and protect his reputation, its not that onerous compared to the modifications women make to our lives to be safe.
Your son may meet a woman like the OPs DD who might refuse to befriend or date him, but realistically he need not fear she will abuse him in the street, follow him home, rape or assault him in her hatred.
Because 'misandry' is toothless. Women may feel it, talk about it, but they don't tend to act on it in a way that harms men.

It’s understandable that she feels this way. At 19, she’s likely receiving a good amount of harassment and sexualisation from men that may be backing up her view. I recall the harassment being the worst between the ages of 12-16. The difference nowadays is the presence of social media, where we can see and experience rampant and growing misogyny constantly, even when they’re not being subjected to it in person. And young women are more likely to spend time on social media & be affected by it.

I am a woman who has lovely relationships with a number of men who I trust. I have equal numbers of close male and female friends. However, I would never live with a man again after many experiences of house shares in which even the ‘kindest’ men treated female housemates like housemaids & shouldered none of the mental load.

As a teenager, I struggled to accept my sexuality. Now, I see it as an absolute gift and a privilege to be a lesbian, to most closely share my life and home with another woman. Even if I was bisexual, I think I’d exclusively date women. I am horrified by the behaviour my straight female friends communicate to me about their partners.

This mindset has been developed directly through my life experiences, and that’s despite having strong friendships with men. So of course it’s ’not all men’, but it’s enough men - and she presumably feels hatred at the perceived source of her oppression. I think a lot of us do.

I also hope she meets enough kind men to help her feel less angry, for her own mental health and relationships. But she has reason to feel negative as a young woman in the current times.

She's 19, no offence but she knows nothing about life or herself at that age.

For every "toxic" man I could show you a dozen absolutely vile, manipulative, emotionally abusive "nice" women. Without a doubt the most hateful, cruel and dangerous people I've ever met have been other women, especially managers. I've seen them ruin other women's careers, marriages, destroy mental health and quite literally ruin lives. It's other women your DD needs to be careful of, not men.

But think of the poor man having to do the bare minimum bit of safeguarding to make a woman feel comfortable. The poor, poor man. We should all bow our heads in shame for slightly inconveniencing the poor baby. I for one feel thoroughly ashamed of myself for a man potentially having a hurt feeling. The poor, poor thing.

Imagine a man posting what you just did about a woman . . .

Absolutely vile.

I’m 47 and it’s taken me till my 40s to realise this. I’ve recently been very let down to discover a male colleague who I’ve helped and supported as a friend over 10 years has been a serial cheater to his wife via online dating. It’s not all men but it’s a low bar to pass as one of the decent ones.

Ah, we now have the full bingo card of misogynistic arseholes on the thread!

I have found this to be true. I can't believe how the boys behave in my daughters primary school. My daughter and her friends think boys get more horrible the older they are getting and I do find it worrying and very sad.

See to me this is what I would love to see and hear more of. A pp (male) jumped to the defensive and said he avoids women with such low opinions of men, but instead of avoiding; engage, understand, empathise and stand up for women and actively call out shit men like your son has done.

i know I definitely want to see more of this.

there are some wonderful men on TikTok/ Instagram doing much more of this (calling out shit men and standing up for women and understanding their viewpoint) and the comments they get from other men on their posts are just disgusting,

That really is complete and utter twaddle.

I would say, for every bad man there is a good man.

Donald Trump - Barack Obama
Jeffrey Epstein - Keanu Reeves
Osama Bin Laden - The Dalai Lama

If you seek evil you will find it. If you look for good, people will surprise you. dont let her lose that beautiful optimism thats inherent in youth....the world needs hope and belief that things can be better xx

I think you're confused.

What's vile is all the (child) raping, murdering, and abusing that men are nearly entirely responsible for as a demographic.

Unless you're confused about the meaning of the word vile?

Or perhaps, I suppose, you just like (child) rape, and dislike safeguarding.

Oh look, another one. The bingo card is filling up.

The Dalai Lama asked a child to suck on his tongue.

If you seek evil you will find it. If you look for good, people will surprise you.

I guess abused women and children must just be seeking evil, huh?

Tell her to marry and raise kids with her best friend, and if that happens to be another straight women then they can both just date outside the marriage when they want no strings action. I'm pretty sure this sounds like the perfect set up!

Thats quite a leap in reasoning. No where did I say or imply that.