To remind people about Highway Code rule H2?

[auserna]

Because about 90% of drivers seem either to be unaware of it or just ignore it and, as a pedestrian, it's fucking irritating! I particularly object to being beeped at when I've already started crossing and a car subsequently swings round the corner.

"Rule H2 of the UK Highway Code mandates that drivers, motorcyclists, horse riders, and cyclists must give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which they are turning. This rule, introduced to enhance pedestrian safety at junctions, applies to both major and minor road turns."

I'd be interested to know who wasn't already aware of this.

So all of those cars that fail to give way, the ones who roll over the line at red lights, pretty much every Audi...

I don’t really understand it either, but people do make mistakes all the time on the roads - whether on foot, by bike or in a vehicle. Some of these mistakes are understandable (eg a child or teen misjudging the distance crossing the road - that’s easy to understand as their brains aren’t fully developed so they are more likely to make mistakes) others less so (eg using a mobile phone while driving).

Countries like the Netherlands understand this in their road design as they expect people to make mistakes so design to try to road users from these by reducing the opportunities for road users to come into conflict with each other. The narrowing of junctions that I referred to upthread is one small example of this. The Vision Zero approach to road safety includes this too & I wish it was better known.

Im aware. If im in a car I wait, the vast majority of the time the pedestrian waits for me to turn because they dont want to assume im waiting for them, because they'll come of worse if I hit them. Neither am I going to wave them across. So we end up in a weird stalemate most of the time.

If im a pedestrian, I wait for the car to turn. I dont care if its my right of way. I'd rather wait for it to be clear than rely on someone else knowing the highway code, or trying to read someone's mind if they are going to stop.

Its certainly increased awareness, but now no one wants to be the one to go.

I think the Highway Code H2 uses the word should not must. It also states that you shouldn't stop and wave pedestrians across.
I never cross a road without looking,
even at a zebra crossing, I'm not trusting my life/safety to strangers.

^ This

Just witnessed a motorist repeatedly honking at an old lady when he turned into a side road as she was already crossing it so he obviously didn't know or chose to ignore the rule

My LA introduced some Home Zone streets, based on the Dutch model. They are a nightmare - in fact they are dumping two of them and making them into one way streets instead.

We also have floating bus stops.

They all assume that people are kind to other road users and will give way - but they don't.

These may work in other countries, but not here. Imo it's because we are very rule based here, which works both ways - we tend to obey traffic rules very diligently, but get annoyed when other people don't.

The Home zone layout makes it very difficult to work out who has right of way. Pedestrians are forced off the pavement at certain points - drivers are supposed to understand this and give them priority, but instead, drivers are infuriated to find people walking in the middle of the road.

And as for floating bus stops..

Culturally we are not ready for any of this.

yes, it is. Unless the arse behind you is driving right up your backside.

Everyone should know the rule, and be ready for cars in front of them to stop.
If you are turning into the road, you are presumably already indicating so the car behind knows to slow/stop as appropriate. Pedestrian crosses, you carry on.

If you are turning out of the side road? (or going straight ahead at a stop or give-way sign) the car behind you can clearly see you are indicating or slowing/stopping and can take appropriate action. The pedestrian crosses, you carry on.

What scenario do you imagine that makes it dangerous?

or maybe he was walking as fast as he could?

how was it unsafe? or were you revving your engine at him to hurry him up?

nobody - but nobody at all - is paying "road tax"

They are paying an emission tax commensurate to the emissions their mode of transport emits.

Drivers shouldn't wave pedestrians across, unless it is a one-way street - and even then they shouldn't do it.

Yes quite right, but we all know what people are referring to when they say road tax. I was using that term as a response to the previous poster, who I disagreed with.

I've not said anything about waving people across so I don't know where you got that from.

People who blather on about "road tax" are claiming that they paid for the road and should have exclusive use of it.

I'm aware but not all drivers judging from the abuse I've had while doing so.... do think entitled drivers are on the rise (see also driving through road closed barriers and not indicating)

That's rude, inconsiderate and dangerous, regardless of any rule.

I would like to add a reminder that it's illegal to leave your headlights on when parked at the roadside

Got a link to that law?

It’s hard to judge a scheme without seeing it, but that sounds like your council have gone wrong somewhere in following the Dutch model. One key principle in Dutch infrastructure is that they reduce conflict, so if you have cars & pedestrians not knowing who gives way to whom, then something has gone wrong (I suspect this isn’t unusual - I have a local junction that looks Dutch - but it isn’t really as the Council would have needed to reduce the traffic lanes for it to work properly, which they didn’t). Where I’ve seen streets like that in the Netherlands, they are very quiet residential streets with big signs saying something like “the car is the guest” so it is clear that drivers have to give way.

I don’t think it’s a cultural difference so much between us and the Netherlands - they have better infrastructure because people protested against child deaths in collisions and because they had some brave politicians willing to take unpopular decisions (there’s a good account in Peter Walker’s book Cycle Nation). It’s paid off for them as their cycle infrastructure is world class - and their roads are much better than ours too.

The scheme won an award - it just doesn't work in this country imo. Basically, the council wanted to introduce these zones and chose streets to do it in - the streets they chose are actually well used as cut throughs, which they apparently didn't realise (or ignored). So they are full of passing cars and vans. They are opposite a railway station and near a major hospital so there are loads of pedestrians. Everyone is in a hurry..... and most people hate them, whether driver or pedestrians!

A little niche, but there is one street near me where it can genuinely be unsafe. The junction is a crossroads where you're approaching on a small one way street perpendicular to a busy A road and want to continue forwards into a very narrow street on the other end. There are no traffic lights, just a give way sign.

The A road also has cycle lanes on both sides (with many cyclists using it), bus lanes and lots of traffic passing through. Finding a gap to cross both lanes of the A road is tricky enough without pedestrians then deciding to cross at the last minute when you're almost at the other end, so side-on to oncoming traffic. This junction is also tricky because the street you are entering on doesn't actually have space for 2 cars at the entrance either, so you'd have had to time that in too.

Obviously it's the traffic/ street design here that is at fault, but it does create a genuinely dangerous scenario if a pedestrian exercises their right of way at the same moment the car has almost finished crossing.

It doesn’t sound like it would work in any country - how could they not realise that the streets were cut throughs?

Local Transport Note 1/20 (Cycle Infrastructure Design guidance) is really clear that shared walking / cycling space doesn’t work on busy routes, so why would anyone think shared pedestrian / car space would (as the difference between speed & mass is even greater than pedestrian / cyclist)?

I can see how the award would happen in the scheme was fêted & the judges don’t know much about road safety, but this type of poorly-designed scheme is really annoying because no-one likes them & they just end up as a argument against future (& hopefully better designed) schemes. It’s also really sad as there are too many collisions & it’s no exaggeration to say that good engineering could save lives.

I was trying to do a right turn off a main road yesterday and stopped to let a lady and her pram cross. All the cars behind me were beeping at me and the guy behind was swearing and gesturing.

It's not new.

Loved the "I had right of way engraved on my tombstone" Really tickled me 😆

I wish that horns sounded as loud inside a car as outside. Then people might just use them for the emergencies they were intended for rather than to demonstrate their impatience.