To have lost faith in men

[nondrinker1985]

As a result of all the Epstein stuff. Having been a victim of a sexual assault as a young child then in my teens and twenties I had a sense of what men were like but my DH is a good man.

Literally everyone is involved in this Epstein stuff- anyone with power. So this makes them exploit young women? It’s sickening - it’s heartbreaking for the young girls who are victims of these men.

Is there a reason why you try to articulate your point by being patronising?

People who disagree with you are neither lack intelligence, understanding or fact.

I am not naive to how absolutely awful some men can be. I never said otherwise.

My point which appears to have fallen on deaf ears of those unable to understand that generalisations are not helpful in any debate.

PS - Many women have watched porn, have taken rejection badly personally or professionally and habe also cheated.

Many women do cheat but men definitely seem to cheat in higher numbers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233843

Again. Never said otherwise.

My point is it isn't all men and there's absolutely nothing that proves otherwise. Yet people continue to lump all men into one category.
Putting men down doesn't raise women up for vice versa.

👍 Agreed

For the LOVE OF GOD. How many times, no one is saying it’s ALL MEN. It’s too many men.

Of course not, it would be the ones who don't.
The 3 out of 4 women who don't suffer domestic abuse would probably agree with me.

I find it so disgusting when women tell their truth about their experiences and it is insinuated (or stated outright) that they can't have a balanced, worthwhile opinion because they are bitter, jealous or damaged by being abused, cheated on, let down by men. The very damage done to them by men becomes the reason they can't be taken seriously about this stuff because their world view has been irreparably damaged.

I say fuck that. Yes, I am bitter about being brought up by a shouty, misogynist father, treated very cruelly and abandoned while pregnant by my 'nice guy' husband who cheated. Iam traumatised by being catcalled, harassed online, groped and raped. And pushed and hit by men. I am jealous of men who don't need to balance work and childcare and who aren't underpaid and have shitter pensions just because of their sex.

This stuff has absolutely given me a negative view of men. They, themselves have taught me never to trust them and that they will cheat, hurt, put themselves first always. Never has a man I have known in any depth convinced me otherwise.

That is my personal evidence and it aligns very, very well with testimony from many other women. And, of course the news and the factual statistics and global history.

Btw, I would include men who pick at women discussing this stuff on the Internet to debate whether their reality even exists as bad eggs. Rotten in fact.

No, I don't have sons. I'm child free, choice made more than thirty years ago.

Thanks for proving my point - and that of many other women on here - so beautifully.

No point wasting your breath and wearing yourself down trying to get certain posters to 'get it.' They're not listening, they don't want to hear it.'

It's like trying to put out the sun with a child's water pistol.

.

How can more men cheat than women? Surely it has to be the same?

Actual wow.

I'm sorry you have such bad experiences.

Sadly, all your experiences are not rare. Despite a small handful of posters claiming 'Not My Nigel.'

It's exasperating.

First you try being patronising and now it's passive agression.

You aren't open to discussion or debate.

It'a a pity that your communication style is so lacking that you cannot engage is reasonable and meaningful debate.

I was opening to listening and perhaps even learning but sadly you can't provide anything worth engaging with any future.

@BatchCookBabe one word jumped out at me from your post and that is 'superiority'. I think you have hit the nail on the head there. I think most men, in fact damn near all men, feel superior to women. This superiority allows them to 'other' women. They can pass comment on womens bodies and looks online and on the street, talk over them at work, watch violent porn without guilt or remorse, catcall, make passes at and harass women in public, and in more extreme cases beat, rape and kill women, especially women who are beneath them, prostitutes, 'easy' women, women from amother culture, imprisoned women, women of the enemy in wartime, at the end of the day, they are 'just' women.

@Deadringer 100% nailed it there! ^ 👏

You’re not wholly wrong but in fairness, it does ignore the fact that his right-hand person and partner in crime was female.

'These creatures' - we can't fight dehumanisation with more dehumanisation.

I agree with this.

On violent porn, surveys show violent content is a relatively small niche of overall pornography. But a large percentage of men watch porn, so the number of men who watch violent content will still be upsettingly high.

https://www.jmir.org/2020/5/e16702?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-023-02701-8?utm_source=chatgpt.com

She was, this is true. Do you think she was the mastermind, or was she guided by him. She is horrific but again, no one is saying women can’t and don’t. In terms of harm as a whole sex class, the majority of harm is caused by men. Statically proven. It’s brought up earlier in the thread when Myra Hindley and Rose West are mentioned. Main men are involved.

Thank you. Yeah and I don't consider my experiences anywhere near the more extreme end, pretty tame quotdian stuff. And no female friends or family who haven't experienced stuff.

There's been a few who have said they hadn't experienced anything but when I checked if that meant they had never been catcalled, never been groped in a club, never had to wear a different uniform to a male colleague, never been called bitch, cow, tart, whore, never been told to behave differently to their brother to their detriment, etc.and they ALL end up having something but don't class it as oppression because it is so, so, so normal.

None of that shit should be acceptable. None of it. Not to mention large scale, systematic trafficking and rape, rape as a war crime, the entire fucking sex industry and on and on and on.

@RamsaySnowsSausage exactly. I don't believe for one minute that there is a woman alive who hasn't been whistled at, catcalled, propositioned, groped, called a miserable cow (because she ignored a man's advances,) sexually assaulted, or even worse.... Maybe there is the odd woman here and there who has never been sexually assaulted or groped, but I am sure every woman alive has been whistled at and catcalled, and had a man fancying his chances trying it on with her.

I just don't believe any woman who says nothing has ever happened.... ever.

Sadly most men are complicit by staying silent and defending each other.
Watching porn.
Laughing at rape jokes.
Everyday misogyny.
As a group upholding victim blaming, minimising rape, minimising the Epstein files and other things like that.
Too many men, the majority of men? are happy to do these things.

The day that the majority of men stand up against porn, against sick jokes, when anonymous polls no longer show that nearly half of men (from a uni study) would rape a woman if he knew he’d get away with it, and 1 in 5 men would sexually assault a child if he knew he’d get away with it, when that day comes that men are equally revolted by male behaviour and actually make a stand against it, when that day comes I’ll happily agree with you.

Until that day I know you’re just one more man happy to keep the status quo.

And if they don't want to fuck and molest you, then you get the shit for being unfuckable- too ugly, too fat, too pregnant, frigid or too old (never too young, though). Being unfuckable is a very big crime in patriarchy.