Page 5 | To have lost faith in men

nondrinker1985 · 2026-02-01T19:20:40+00:00

As a result of all the Epstein stuff. Having been a victim of a sexual assault as a young child then in my teens and twenties I had a sense of what men were like but my DH is a good man. Literally everyone is involved in this Epstein stuff- anyone with power. So this makes them exploit young women? It’s sickening - it’s heartbreaking for the young girls who are victims of these men.

Boomer55 · 02/02/2026 16:32

I worked in a child protection department for years. The sickness in life isn’t always from men.

Playingvideogames · 02/02/2026 16:33

Brefugee · 02/02/2026 16:32

oh mate.
Sometimes you need to know when to shut up and listen.

This was that time.

Show quote history

Agree. ‘Speaking as a man’ 🙄 nobody cares

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:34

WaryCrow · 02/02/2026 15:49

Lost faith? You mean you had some?? I do trust men, I trust them to be sex-mad arseholes and think with their dicks and their testosterone. Always found it ‘funny’ that it was women labelled as ruled by hormones, when testosterone is out there.

The Epstein files aren’t showing me anything particularly, I’m more concerned about the case in France of men drugging and inviting strangers to rape their wives for years - ordinary men with families doing this to their wives - and a couple of similar cases I’ve seen that have not grabbed the media’s attention, probably because ‘it’s boring now’. Also the number of videos flooding the internet made of women on a night out in cities or just walking around living their lives, and the amount of misogynistic comments they attract.

Crone Island is the old name of the collective fantasy for women to live alone without men, what we actually need is Sheri Tepper’s Women’s Country. Men despise us and always will. Historically men as a species are very capable of throwing kids back into burning buildings and laughing.

The only thing the Epstein files are surprising me with is why oh why Mandelson was brought out of retirement when he was always dodgy as fuck. Some of us remember New Labour. They were traitors to the working classes.

Edited

'Men despise us and always will.' - that's too pessimistic. I don't think most men despise women.

I do agree that the Pelicot & similar cases are extremely scary as they show how common violent misogyny is

Onleemoi · 02/02/2026 16:34

Most men are nice to a few women.

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:35

Luckyingame · 02/02/2026 14:49

That is fine.
I, however, will stick to avoiding all men.
And keeping legal weapons for personal use,
as a trained daughter of a high ranking soldier.
😁

Show quote history

Does 'avoiding all men' include male family members?

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:36

Deadringer · 02/02/2026 15:27

When something bad happens to women
Men: not all men are like that
When they teenage daughters
Men: I know what men are like.

Agree with this

Brefugee · 02/02/2026 16:37

ThatBlackCat · 02/02/2026 15:16

NO ONE HAS EVER FUCKING SAID IT'S ALL MEN!!!!

Can we please have one, just ONE (1) fucking thread without someone rushing in and screeching NAMALT?!??? Just ONE? Please? Ffs!

Show quote history

perhaps we should have a daily 2 minute hate with men as the target?

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:38

LondonLady1980 · 02/02/2026 15:02

Although I have a wonderful husband, a
lovely dad, uncles, grandads and nephews etc I sometimes feel that there is something within men that is just different and something to potentially to fear in some of them.

I remember being out a few years ago with some of my friends and there was a fight in the street where 4 men beat the absolute shit out of another guy and they eye filled with so much rage and anger, it was truly horrific. It was the most brutal thing I have ever seen. The other guy was unconscious on the floor and the group of 4 were still kicking him and punching him, over and over again, hitting him with some kind of bar…. He was absolutely covered in blood, not moving and they just kept on attacking him. All I could think was, “What runs through their blood that caused them to be able to do that to someone?” It was like looking at a group of feral animals. It was terrifying. It was evil.

I will never, ever forget it.

And yes, I know it’s not all men (blah, blah, blah) but there’s something about men as a group that just makes some of them so different to women in terms of their core nature and their potential (and ability) to be violent and deviant.

What a terrifying thing to witness. You don't know who the men were though: they could have been hardened criminals. I do think the average man is much more capable of violence than an average woman, but I don't think the average man would want to sadistically beat someone as you describe

Brefugee · 02/02/2026 16:39

asrl78 · 02/02/2026 15:20

But it doesn't require thinking so that is what will be done, but I agree, calling men horrific is about as reasonable as calling all women horrific because of Myra Hindley and Rose West. As for collective responsibility, I have no control over anyone else and therefore am not responsible for their actions, I am perfectly happy to condemn actions by either gender that violate my moral principles.

Show quote history

whoop whoop, you can name 2 notorious women

Know why they are notorious? because it is so rare.

it is also sex not gender.

HTH

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 02/02/2026 16:41

Boomer55 · 02/02/2026 16:32

I worked in a child protection department for years. The sickness in life isn’t always from men.

I’ve worked in various departments within criminal justice for over 20 years. I’ve met some horrible women, many who have committed horrific crimes. The main problem if I’m going to simplify/generalise it, is men.

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:42

BatchCookBabe · 02/02/2026 14:24

Hilariously deluded.

Even if most men are not sex offenders, most men are sex pests ... to some degree ... Grabby, gropy, watch porn, eye up women half their age, will try it on with most reasonably attractive women, think of women as less than them, and think they're superior to women. Also many men are lazy, and quite selfish, and most of them will pretty much always put themselves first.

I completely agree with the poster who said that men as a general class are pretty horrific. A small percentage of men are pretty OK, (most of the time,) but most of them are sexist, pervy, and entitled. At least at some period in their lives. Some of them are like this all throughout their lives.

Of course, you always get the Not My Nigels on here, and the 'oooh but some women are not great!' crap being spouted. It's as tedious as fuck, but very predictable. 🙄

'Wot about the women!!!' is a pathetic and lame argument that is just insulting to the amount of shit that many women have to suffer during their lifetime at the hands of men.

.

Edited

Show quote history

Agree partially, but these 2 :

watch porn- I don't think watching porn is automatically 'sex pest' behaviour per se. Imo the real issue is how unethical consent etc is - you never know really.

'will try it on with most reasonably attractive women' - 'trying it on' doesn't necessarily equal 'sex pest'. The key is whether rejection is accepted at once without pushing.

Brefugee · 02/02/2026 16:43

Boomer55 · 02/02/2026 16:32

I worked in a child protection department for years. The sickness in life isn’t always from men.

Yes. We. Know.

This thread, specifically, is about men.
So you can go and "whatabout" elsewhere.

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:44

HowardTJMoon · 02/02/2026 14:14

I've already said that if I see a man being shitty about or to women I call it out.

Show quote history

Yes, I think some people are reading what you wrote unfairly. I get people wanting to vent but that's no excuse for ignoring what you actually wrote..

Luckyingame · 02/02/2026 16:48

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:35

Does 'avoiding all men' include male family members?

Show quote history

Yes, it does. I don't have many of these left.

Carla786 · 02/02/2026 16:51

Luckyingame · 02/02/2026 16:48

Yes, it does. I don't have many of these left.

Show quote history

I understand. I assume you don't have sons? I understand if you'd rather not give info.

ApplebyArrows · 02/02/2026 17:16

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 02/02/2026 15:55

Exactly 🙄. I said men as a sex class. I even put it in bold.

On all of these threads it seems to be taken that it’s LITERALLY all men when no one has ever said it’s every single man on the planet. The fact that VAWG can’t be discussed without a NAMALT being stated is what’s ridiculous.

Show quote history

OP literally wrote "literally everyone" though. (Qualified afterwards as "everyone with power" but that could be taken to imply everyone would be the same if only they had power.) You can understand why people might then feel inclined to point out it isn't literally everyone.

In my experience Mumsnet posters (as opposed to posters on many other forums) are actually pretty good at avoiding NAMALT and only come out with it in the face of particularly provocative posts like this one.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 02/02/2026 17:22

ApplebyArrows · 02/02/2026 17:16

OP literally wrote "literally everyone" though. (Qualified afterwards as "everyone with power" but that could be taken to imply everyone would be the same if only they had power.) You can understand why people might then feel inclined to point out it isn't literally everyone.

In my experience Mumsnet posters (as opposed to posters on many other forums) are actually pretty good at avoiding NAMALT and only come out with it in the face of particularly provocative posts like this one.

Show quote history

I know that she literally wrote literally but it referred to the Epstein case, and was also preceded by ‘my DH is a good man’ so I didn’t take her literally, literally. In the ‘all men in the whole wide world’ sense.

It’s not my experience, it appears on every thread that mentions VAWG. Literally.

BoredZelda · 02/02/2026 17:30

Happyjoe · 02/02/2026 15:19

Not all men.
But far too many.

Show quote history

Not all men. But always men.

Kunkka · 02/02/2026 17:35

I regret that every thread on these topics follows the same pattern. Either an indignant man speaks up to make it clear that he is not the problem, or women respond by listing a number of men, often members of their own families, who are exemplary members of society.

Frankly, this dynamic is exhausting, even for me as a man. While we are busy clarifying who is and is not one of the good ones, the world continues to operate exactly as it always has.

All of this happens without us ever getting to the core issue:

How do we succeed in establishing a new cultural framework that shapes an image of women in the minds of boys and girls which rejects objectification and instead recognizes women as equal and autonomous partners? Whether in relationships, professional life, or the public sphere

Raspberrymoon49 · 02/02/2026 17:45

I always raise this point in a discussion like this, if men were being killed by women in the numbers women are through male violence there’d be a national outcry, why the F don’t ‘decent’ men, if they’re so decent, take up the charge and become vocal about male violence towards women, does anyone know of any man who actively engages with anything to advocate for women abused my men, because I don’t

BatchCookBabe · 02/02/2026 18:05

canuckup · 02/02/2026 14:53

And it's pretty offensive is it? To lump you all in the same boat??

If you're offended by that, then it just demonstrates you know nothing about what women suffer.

So take your offensive elsewhere. Perhaps do some good for women? Stand up, defend us??

Oh no. Cos men don't. They only stand up for other men, by keeping quiet.

Real warriors

This. ^ I honestly couldn't give a fuck that some men have bruised feelings because many women are talking about how they are sick to death of the constant shitty crappy behaviour from men. From the ones who are shit husbands and partners (and shit fathers) who are lazy and entitled, to the ones who sexually harrass, grope, and grab at women - even their own wife, (demanding sex no matter what she may be going through,) along with catcalling and jeering at women, and even being aggressive when women aren't interested.

Men can get to the far side of fuck to be honest. Their 'upset' caused by hurty words from women, is not even 1% of what women have to put up with from men, throughout their whole lives!

BatchCookBabe · 02/02/2026 18:05

@AwfullyGood

It's ridiculous because it isn't all men and some of the agruments otherwise hold no weight.

I know plenty of good, great, fantastic men. Men, who respect women, treat them well and fairly.

This is almost funny. My sweet summer child.......... You really believe that all these men you know are good, great, and fantastic. You do not know that. You really don't! Most men - even the ones who present as 'one of the good ones' have some degree of misogyny, and entitlement, and laziness, and superiority over women. And they will ALL have catcalled, and whistled at women at some point in their lives.

They will also have tried it on with a woman, and got arsey and snippy when they were turned down - (and even aggressive in some cases.) They have pretty much all watched porn, and all been a bit annoyed when a woman is very successful, and earning more than them. Many of them have cheated on their wives.

These men are not as 'good,' 'great,' and 'fantastic' as you think.

No, they're really not!

BoredZelda · 02/02/2026 18:06

NovemberMorn · 02/02/2026 13:07

Rather than judging men by the horrors that make the news, judge them by the ones you know, husbands, fathers, brothers, sons ,grandsons.
If they are all horrors, I can see women coming to that conclusion.
If not, it's sad then that iyo, all the decent men are lumped in with the rotten ones.

Would those be the husbands (or partners) who kill 2 women per week? Or the domestic abuse that happens to 1 in 4 women?

Or the fathers and brothers who are responsible for child sexual abuse, 90% of which happens within the home?

BatchCookBabe · 02/02/2026 18:07

Whyarepeople · 02/02/2026 14:31

I long for the day (and it may have happened already and I missed it) when a thread like this starts on MN and a man comes along and says: 'When I read this, I find it hurts my feelings and I have a desire to defend myself, but I understand that in world where women are routinely threatened, assaulted, raped and sold as possessions my feelings of hurt are really not the issue. I don't hurt anyone but I'd really like to see an end to women being hurt. I really care about this.'

Wouldn't that be wonderful?!

Never gonna happen though, because the vast majority of men are entitled and selfish, and when push comes to shove, they don't give a shit about women, or how the cunty behaviour of many men affects them!

threescoops · 02/02/2026 18:11

Kunkka · 02/02/2026 17:35

I regret that every thread on these topics follows the same pattern. Either an indignant man speaks up to make it clear that he is not the problem, or women respond by listing a number of men, often members of their own families, who are exemplary members of society.

Frankly, this dynamic is exhausting, even for me as a man. While we are busy clarifying who is and is not one of the good ones, the world continues to operate exactly as it always has.

All of this happens without us ever getting to the core issue:

How do we succeed in establishing a new cultural framework that shapes an image of women in the minds of boys and girls which rejects objectification and instead recognizes women as equal and autonomous partners? Whether in relationships, professional life, or the public sphere

Yes, exactly. And most people underestimate how incredibly influential the lucrative porn industry is, in shaping the sexual scripts of young men so that sexual violence like strangulation is normalised, and in perpetrating the general commodification and objectification of women