To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

Don't be ridiculous

I used to have a cleaner. She didn't clear up any shit in my toilet. As a normal human being I did that myself

My house was tidy for her so she just cleaned. Believe it or not, it's a job she enjoys, She came twice a month to do a deeper clean than I did. But I hoovered and wiped down and cleaned my toilet in between her visits,

And trust me, she didn't feel exploited

This inverse snobbery (which to me shows you look down on cleaners) amazes me

Good for her!

You might be able to buy the labour of your cleaner but you can't buy the space inside her head.

Of course she's judging you.

So you object to others earning money to help with living costs? Cleaning is big business and lots of people, male and female, do it

I don’t think it’s anything to feel embarrassed about, but of course it’s a luxury! You must surely be aware that large numbers of people can’t afford a cleaner? (Or a gardener or housekeeper or nanny…)

No, I look down on the people who employ cleaners.

So stop feeling guilty. No one can make you feel guilt if you a) don't want to and b) honestly don't feel it IS a luxury.

The cliché. The only person you can change is yourself. Stop worrying what others think. You can't change them. Change you.

Really? I outsource lots of things and I pay well, have good working conditions and treat these people fairly (if I cancel them I still pay). Why is it so awful to offer work with few barriers to entry? It’s women that often need such work. My cleaner runs another business and I’m her only client she kept on. I think she chooses to work for me.

Isn’t the entire economy based on buying other people’s labour?

I’m also self-employed and I pay my mortgage (and my cleaner) by other people buying my labour. It’s called work.

OP, If a cleaner helps you out, so be it. There’s nothing wrong with enlisting a bit of help. Some pay for dog walkers, oven cleaners, window cleaners and so on. Yes it may be a luxury to some, but if you can afford it and a cleaner helps you, it’s money well spent ( in my view) Plus you are supporting another persons business.

Well, I can't do it so I'm happy to pay the trained woman that does it for me.

This thread is interesting to me because we have just found a cleaner and she starts soon.

I have been poor basically my whole life until the last few years. On the brink of homelessness a couple of times, not having money to eat for sustained periods of time.

Now, I live in a 6 figure household (even earnings split between me and my partner) and making the decision to get a cleaner has been a long time coming. We could have afforded it a year ago but kept putting it off, because I don't know how I will cope having someone in the house, it feels indulgent for all the reasons listed on this thread, and I don't see myself as someone who has hired help.

There is that worry of being judged, both by the cleaner for being messy or dirty, and by others for having a cleaner.

But a lot of those worries are underscored by misogyny. I will face the brunt of judgement because I am the woman, my partner would likely get sympathy that he's having to pay someone when I should be doing it for free. Though we both have an equal split of responsibilities in the house.

We could clean it ourselves. We just don't want to. That is the indulgence part. If someone is disabled for example, then it is not a luxury at all and is a necessity. But for us, yes it is a luxury and an indulgence and one I literally never thought possible in my life.

The external judgement - I do understand it to some extent but also, we can choose to spend our money how we like. Some of those who would judge could have made different choices to the ones we made. Like having a more expensive house, or more expensive cars. Everyone makes choices in their lives. There is of course elements of luck to it all and things out of people's control in life. But a lot comes down to choices.

If I had the funds I would have a housekeeper and a cook as well tbh. But that is a dream for another day 😅

Good for you. But it's not really about intelligence.

DH and I are both clever enough to do our own cleaning - but we work full time, even on a WFH day we are working, in jobs that occasionally need us to be available out of hours as well. We also both volunteer. The cleaner doesn't do everything so our WFH days means we have time to do laundry etc.

With the time left over, we want to be with our kids, not clean the house. In an average week, I get maybe 3-4 hours to rest/watch TV/read a book, I really don't want to use those to clean.

But I do get it - there are choices and trade offs. I think takeaways are a waste of money and a very occasional thing for us, I would basically always rather just cook something simple than get a takeaway which is presumably how you feel about cleaning

Of course it’s a luxury. How ridiculous 😂

When you worked in an office who cleaned that ?

You’re right. We should stop using all these services and tell the people who pay their bills by doing them to claim UC instead. Then all will be right in the world of Guardian readers.

Anything not strictly necessary to your basic survival is a luxury surely? so cleaners, holidays, take aways, kids clubs, etc.
I dont get the distain though...I only work part time but if I could afford it Id have a cleaner, and a gardener, and someone to do my ironing! I hate those jobs.
And cleaners dont feel degraded or looked down upon merely because they clean for a living. I say that as someone who spent many years as a cleaner, its just a job.

Why 'good for her'?

You are being wild. If you can afford it, crack on. But it is a luxury that most cannot. Many people also fix their own toilets, build their own fences, paint their own houses. It's personal choice. I get challenged for my luxury holidays. But I can afford them because I don't have a cleaner, a plumber, a decorator etc. Life choices are each to their own. But have some self awareness that many are in a position where they would love to be able to say it's not a luxury.

The argument that people can choose how to spend their money or whether they should clean their own house or not is different from the argument of whether it’s a luxury.

Of course it’s a luxury. It’s a non-essential that costs upwards of £100 a month.

What is your definition of luxury?

I assumed the person meant it's easy doing your own cleaning, not doing it full time for a job. Which is fair enough. Doing most things to an adequate level for half an hour a day is easy enough and achievable for most people. That doesn't mean everyone has the skills to do it professionally.

The vast majority of people could spend twenty minutes doing a slow jog round the park, only a few have the skills, aptitude and desire to be an Olympic athlete. Anyone who isn't totally incompetent can make a basic meal - not everyone can be a chef. I can plonk out greensleeves but am not comparable to a professional pianist.

Acknowledging some things can be done yourself doesn't diminish the skill of people who do them much better as a career.

You service your own boiler? I hope you're Gas Safe registered as you have to be to remove the casing.

Yes, it's called capitalism. It's inherently exploitative. Read a book.

So strange 😂

Gotta love a Mumsnet Saturday morning bun fight! 🤣

Although probably not as much as the OP does...

I am someone who does think that cleaning is actually a skilled job. It is just that most people ( mainly women) have been trained on this job for years. One of my children lives in an area where it is really difficult to get a cleaner and has had a succession of agency cleaners that are simply hopeless. I am retired and would like a cleaner, just to have some more free time, but I don’t think anyone would do it as well as me and my husband.