To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

@pouletvous What on earth? Of course men are expected to clean their houses. Sounds like you picked a manchild. Well done!

I think you are being disingenuous @Gahr.
It's really not hard to understand that some people would find £18/hour for several hours a week unaffordable and would therefore see a cleaner as a luxury.
I've had a cleaner ever since my first DC was born btw.

There's something about a woman paying another woman to do her 'shit work' that puts some people's backs up.

It's not about the money spent, as buying a takeaway on a Friday night costs the same and is also a luxury but isn't judged in the same way.

I would hope not, as your sister would be out of work otherwise! If you worked as a hairdresser, would you be wondering why people didn't box dye? JFC.

Now I’m working full time again, I have a cleaner once a week. My house was getting out of control and it was depressing me.
I love knowing she’s coming and it means that if I clean the bathrooms once a week after work, hoover two evenings, clean the kitchen properly after supper every night, then the house stays tolerable. It gives me a breather.

I do the windows, oven, carpets, scrub the wheelie bins on the odd free weekend- all things other people pay someone to do.

My basic problem is I like the house to remain at the same standard of cleanliness it was when I was at home with the children. It’s impossible when out all day and then running the children around at the weekend.

I can tolerate mess, but I can’t bear dirt and I do think some people’s houses are filthy these days as we’re all working such long hours to pay the bills.

I have a friend who is a part time gardener. She pays her cleaning lady the same as she gets an hour for gardening, so she’s not ‘rich’. Just prioritises different things. Some people spend money on lip filler, getting nails done, Botox, buying endless clothes - ridiculous!!! each to their own.

Lots of people define luxuries as 'not essentials.' If you break things down that way it makes sense.

A cleaner isn't an essential. If your house is a bit messy then nobody is going to die.
If your boiler or toilet is broken then that soon becomes a risk to health, and seriously impacts your comfort in a way that having a house cleaned to 80-90% standard (which any able bodied/minded person can achieve if they want) compared to 100% doesn't.

You seem to selectively ignore what doesn't prove your point - people absolutely do criticise others for spending significant amounts of money on holidays or handbags if they then complain about not being able to afford other stuff! Obviously if you can afford it then buying or paying for anything is fine.

"Someone who comes in every day to clean, funnily enough."

Well, which? A daily cleaner or a more general domestic servant?

Precisely. See the comment a moment ago, someone who works as a cleaner judging her clients! Lovely.

Well actually if you offer a service that people could do yourself it’s always worth thinking “why don’t they” because that helps you provide a better service

It is a luxury in the sense that it's not essential but it attracts judgement in a way that others do not.

And that's because it's women's work/time in question.

For me (and I could easily afford a cleaner) it’s paying someone else to do something that’s so so easy. Between my DH and I we’re pretty intelligent people and can manage to keep on top of cleaning.

It would kill me to be WFH and paying someone to do hoovering, dusting, cleaning showers etc. I can do that! It doesn’t take a genius. I would also hate the idea of someone I didn’t know in my home.

I don't have a cleaner although I do need one. Would do our house the world of good to do a few yearly deep cleans.

What I always feel from MN is a tone that cleaners are like modern slaves but maybe that's just my take. Poor cleaner having to clean your muck up. When the cleaner is earning a wage. No such distain for handy men paying to put up shelves when it's a bloke doing what was in past seen as "man's work". Us little women need to clean our slaton houses ourselves 🤣

Meanwhile back in the real world working mum.hire cleaners as it make financial sense overall if you earn say £40ph and the cleaner is £20 ph

I think there's an assumption that women should do their own and their family's cleaning.

Does not apply to men, however.

Define easy? It's hard manual labour. It's non stop. There's no coffee machine chat or sitting in a comfy office chair. It's sweaty, on your hands and knees, cleaning other people's grime. It takes it toll on your knees and hands. It's knowledge about surfaces, products, it's effective time management and prioritisation. I wouldn't say that was particularly easy. Why so dismissive about how hard many cleaners work?

I don't think anyone considers cleaners to be "modern slaves". They are performing a task for which they are paid.
Some people can afford this, others cannot.
That's all.

As a paid up member of the hand-wringing guardian-reading middle classes, while I could afford a cleaner I can’t bear the idea.

Why should I outsource a horrible job that I CBA to do to someone else? I made the mess, I should clear it up, not throw money at someone else. It just feels like a hangover from Upstairs Downstairs.

Plenty of men live alone and plenty of them clean their own house. Im pretty sure some thay can afford it will hire a cleaner, and why not?
I hate cleaning and I would probably hire a cleaner if I could afford it, but I cant, so thats the end of the story.

That is poorly paid when you account for time off, sickness, travel time, insurance, no pension.

A bit of both. In the early to mid twentieth century, there would be a hierarchy of servants, with upper servants organising other ones and often being waited on themselves. Then after two world wars, labour became far less widely available. Some households would have a 'charwoman' who would do the rougher work such as cleaning the steps and sweeping out the fires, while the 'daily' would do lighter work but would also help in the kitchen. Earlier in the century, and in the late nineteenth century, there would be a 'cook general' in households which were middle class but not wealthy enough to afford the full complement of servants. The 'cook general', as the name suggests, did the cooking but also general housework, but not the 'rough' which was done by the charwoman.

It's not the work that you're paying for, it's buying back your time. It doesn't need to be hard.

I feel the same about manicures and pedicures. Feels like a demeaning task for someone else to have to crouch at my feet, when I could do it just as well myself.

There’s a lot of internalised misogyny around cleaning, and a sort of patronising view that it’s poor, downtrodden women being taken advantage of by the wealthy.

In reality, my cleaner runs a very successful business and has for many years. Many women choose to clean because they can pick their own hours, work around their commitments, it’s a way to get back into the job market when they’ve been out of it for a long time. It says a lot that some people think cleaning is something to be looked down on or something shameful.

That's just silly. It's a job, like any other.

Most people clean their own homes and know how hard it is to clean that

cleaning in specialist areas - places with lots of traffic - is physical but the skills and knowledge required are still quite basic. No shame in that. But it seems like some feel it? I’d say the same about the bin men - not highly skilled labour albeit essential

Really odd that you can’t see this is a luxury. I started having a cleaner 3 years ago and her impact on my mental health has been enormous. I would cut loads of things before her. Even then, she still represents a luxury I am lucky to be able to afford, as does my gardener. Neither are essential, but undoubtedly my house is cleaner and my garden tidier than before I employed them.
Still a luxury.