To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

Jesus what a load of bollocks.
Are the English still as class obsessed as ever ?

Have you read the rest of the thread?

It obviously to me is an example of a gendered value judgement (possibly with a side order of psychological stuff about dirt and allowing "strangers" access to intimate parts of the home) but some posters are trying to make it entirely about income and wealth distribution, while ignoring the fact that people (women) are at liberty - or should be - to spend their money and time as they wish. Whether that be working as a cleaner for the going rate of £15-£18 an hour (round here), spending some of their earnings on services, or choosing to do their own cleaning when they don't have to.

It's all OK.

Besides, as anyone who's ever employed a cleaner knows, it's a seller's market anyway. You have to be nice to them and pay them promptly and well. Or someone else will snap them up.

Totally get the reasons on this thread for some having cleaners such as two full time working parents (but it is still a luxury for the majority of the population and don’t understand how OP can’t see that). It’s £20 an hour in our area.

I do think cleaning is actually so good for you all round and there’s been a thread in the last few days that shows that. People in their 50’s never doing anything that involves getting on the floor. Cleaning keeps you fit and active and lack of movement is so detrimental to health. Our neighbours in their 70’s/80’s are up ladders cleaning windows, clean their car, weeding sat on the floor etc, always busy with jobs. So if you can clean and have the time, I do think getting a cleaner is a poor choice of spending.

If both parents are getting home at 6pm every day and want weekends to be free for quality time (and have the money), then definately get it probably doesn’t feel like a luxury and more of a necessity.

Depends on the rest of your week, doesn't it? Personally I do an active, physical job and commute by public transport. I also do a fair bit of cleaning and tidying at work. If you otherwise sit at a desk or in a car, sure.

While my cleaner cleans, I can go to the gym instead. Better for my health, strength and mobility than hoovering.

That’s what I mean, lots commute to work, sit at a desk and drive home. I move around for my job too, walk everywhere I physically can and clean the house. Point is, if you can clean (and get that work hours mean many struggle), I think it is great for general health. I couldn’t sit on a sofa and have someone clean my house around me 🫣 That does seem completely lazy to me.

If I was working long hours, I probably would consider a cleaner so I could get outdoors at the weekend and didn’t have it all to do. But it is still a luxury many don’t have the choice to have.

Sorry replying to post above - cleaning is great for health. Keeps you fit and active and never been to a gym (do one exercise class a week). I get everyone is different but seems like paying for a gym and a cleaner when you can be active doing stuff at home is a waste of money to me. But that’s just me, get everyone is different.

I'd love a cleaner. I'd just have trust issues with letting strangers into my home and touching all my stuff, so probably not going to work out at the moment

It's unethical for women to be able to earn an independent living? And it's only 'less well-qualified/educated women' (you're skirting around the implication that you think they are 'less intelligent' there) that do it?

When I was scrubbing shit off the pans in the local council offices or people's homes in exchange for money to pay for things like food or textbooks, I wasn't feeling exploited, I was perfectly happy about the fact I was able to pay my tuition and feed myself at the same time. It paid better than chucking files into pigeonholes, dealing with claimants screaming down the phone at me because I wouldn't authorise two grand payments for a thirty quid suitcase from Argos that went missing on the way to Playa de Las Americas or approving payments of £4m to American hospitals - and both the hours and the attitude of those paying me were far better.

I don't think my childminder was particularly exploited or upset about the amount she received from me when I was on tax credits a few years later, either. It meant that, along with income from the other children's fees, she owned a house I still, twenty five years and many multiples of my then salary later, would have zero chance of even getting approved to rent, much less be able to afford to buy. Of course, I could have stayed on Income Support and not 'exploited' her experience, qualifications, professional registration, insurance, ownership of a large, well equipped house and garden for somewhere around £70 less than I actually earned each month before those childcare tax credits. Or I could have paid the company owned by the private doctor who owned the three nurseries in the area and expanded to after school care double in order to pay his staff a couple of quid per hour.

But I preferred my money (30%) and the 70% of charges that came from tax credits to go to a woman running her own business to support her family, rather than give it to an already immensely wealthy man.

I have been to the gym (quite a bit) and can confidently state that housework is not comparable to intentional training at the gym.

I think this is a good point but it's not what I got from the op. DIY wasn't the male equivalent but fixing the boiler. A cleaner and a gas engineer are not in the same category for me, one is a luxury and one is a necessity. I got from the op that she lives in a world where they are both a necessity.

Hopefully your cleaner has similar outlets to keep herself fit and healthy.

Not OP's business whether she does or not, is it? Do you worry about the hobbies of supermarket workers and amazon delivery drivers? If not, why not?

They are both a necessity in my world, yes. I mean, I could clean my own house, but it wouldn't be up to a professional standard.

@Gahr

Are you genuinely “confused” about this?

Don’t get me wrong - I see my cleaner as a necessity. But MY necessity

But cleaning doesn't need to be at a professional standard - it's not like a broken boiler where it has to be done a certain way to be safe.

I have no idea what I'm supposed to do with this comment. I don't know if my cleaner goes to the gym or wants to go to the gym or prefers to do something else with her free time.

Frankly, yes. If you want an example of what I'm talking about, there is another thread running at the moment where someone's cleaner is ripping them off. Someone on the thread told them that they should 'get off their lazy backside and clean their own house'. If someone started a thread saying that their takeaway was cold and they had been overcharged, would someone say 'cook your own meal'? I highly doubt it.

Yes there’s some thick people out there. Is that a surprise to you?

But to say you’re genuinely confused anyone would see a cleaner as a luxury might indicate you are one of them!

On MN they absolutely would say that. There's a big culture of healthy eating, cooking from scratch and not wasting money.

You feel like a cleaner is a necessity, which is how your priorities are. Fine. But in the context of the world as a whole, it's not a necessity for you to be safe, fed, watered and sheltered that someone else clean your home. You can acknowledge that, right?

I'm not shaming you for having and appreciating a cleaner. I'm just pointing out that it's not essential to life.

You're still not getting it! It's not just a case of 'thick people out there'. It's the fact that cleaning attracts this kind of 'do it yourself' attitude, when nothing else does! People don't tell people who have eaten at a restaurant and found it unacceptable to 'cook their own food', do they?!

Mumsnet being what it is, you might be right. However, I have seen one or two threads about takeaways and while there tends to be some tedious chat about how unhealthy it is, I have yet to see people say that the OP should just cook their own food.

no but the idea that you can’t comprehend anyone seeing a cleaner as luxury is … concerning.

Some would see eating in a restaurant as a luxury.

That wasn’t my point at all - I can well believe it would take that time. My point was that that neither your DP nor DC (depending on ages of course) seem to be factored into the cleaning at all!

People say that kind of thing all the time on here.

See also ready meals, meal deals etc.