To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

We need a revolution in how the global economy works. A change from neo-liberal capitalism, probably back to Keynsian economics and the social contract, where the economy works for the people more than currently - currently the economies of the world are geared to making multi-nationals more powerful than governments and dispossessing countries of the use of their resources (rather than just receiving wages from them) and the outsourcing of their infrastructure so that things such as water and power (in which there can be only an artificial market) treated as commodities.

Do you say this to your adult kids? If so, what’s their response?

@Grammarnut I like your take on this! Are you an academic or something?

This. It's a luxury in the same way as all of those things. There's nothing wrong with having a cleaner if you can afford it/choose to prioritise it. There's going to be situations where it's a lifesaver, if you are disabled/work long hours/juggle work with a family. It's still a luxury because not everyone can afford it.

I do apologise for the Guardian bit, that was Herbaceous and I misattributed. But the rest of it is not a misattribution. I have gleaned what I have from your own posts.

You say I should engage with the argument. This honest truth is, it's hard to read your argument that you think an honest job I have done for money I needed is something I shouldn't have been asked to do. You've said you don't have an issue with cleaners themselves, but honestly, that is hard to believe when you think it's wrong to employ us to do it in a domestic setting.

I liked domestic cleaning. I'd still do it if I hadn't developed a sensitivity to a lot of household detergents. As I said before, I don't need someone to tell me I am being exploited, or that it's wrong that someone wants me to do it.

I simply need regulations in place to ensure I am paid and treated properly. I don't need people telling others it isn't something they should be employing me to do in the first place.

Which absolutely is what you've said. That everyone should clean their own homes, and not pay someone else to do it. The fact that some of us wanted to be paid to do it seems to be an irrelevance.

And it shouldn't be. You don't like people telling you what you are. I don't like a job I took professional pride in being spoken about as though doing it makes me some sort of victim of something.

As I said in the post you fumed over, I don't need you to tell people what jobs they can and can't employ me to do. And yes, you have done that.

I very much agree with this.

I completely agree and posters who insist that cleaning is all unskilled whilst simple plumbing, window cleaning, gutter cleaning, simple car maintenance etc are skilled are simply rubbishing the labour and skills of women. Anyone who has had a bad cleaner can tell you the difference and as you say - you wouldn’t need to teach your DC this stuff if it was unskilled.

All those basic maintenance tasks are things my father’s generation and most of my generation grew up being expected to do for ourselves. Now suddenly weeding, grass cutting, using a plunger on the loo, putting up a ladder with a long pole to clear the gutters, changing the car oil and cleaning it or picking up a paintbrush in the home has magically become skilled work which requires years of training and special equipment. Funny how the people doing these jobs are mostly male whilst cleaners and housekeepers are mostly female.

Changing/servicing a boiler requires certifications as does putting in a new consumer unit. Unblocking a sink or loo, changing washers on taps, wiring plugs/changing fuses etc are no more skilled than cleaning.

It's defiantly a luxury to have a cleaner, but I disagree with some posters comments that its unskilled. Professional cleaners clean to a high standard a lot faster than I could, I'm sure its the same for a lot of people.

Absolutely every single person I know has a cleaner. It’s such a normal thing to me. I grew up in another country, a ‘developing’ one and even there we had a cleaner. It’s just like any service you pay for?

Something like 1 in 6 or 7 households have a cleaner in the uk

probably more if it’s an elderly neighbourhood and less in younger areas

I don't know anyone with a cleaner. I know the cleaners, though.

the affluence of an area will determine numbers more than anything

SE Kent here… and everyone I know has a cleaner

I never realized it was considered a luxury by others. Most of my friends have one. From my perspective, if the time I spend working earns more than what I would pay a cleaner, then it’s worth the money.

I completely agree with you. I don’t see having a cleaner as a luxury at all.. I see it as a necessity. Both my husband and I work full-time, and the last thing I want to do on a Saturday or Sunday is spend hours cleaning the house when there is already so much else to do: laundry, organising, caring for our child, growing my side hussle, and actually enjoying time together as a family.

What I find interesting is that people rarely bat an eyelid when someone has a gardener. For some reason that’s accepted as practical, yet domestic cleaning is treated differently and often undervalued. From many of the comments, it’s clear that women in particular are conditioned to see cleaning as something they should do themselves to save money, as if it’s a personal obligation rather than work that can be outsourced like any other service.

I see this play out with friends too: on weekends, the partner might take the children out to do fun activities while the mother stays home cleaning. If both parents are working all week, that means the mother misses out on valuable bonding time, while one parent gets the enjoyable parts of family life.

For me, having a cleaner isn’t just about a tidy house. It’s about reclaiming time, time to spend with my child, go on day trips, focus on health, or simply rest. It’s about recognising that my time has value, and choosing to spend it on things that matter more than scrubbing floors.

I didn’t realise it was so frowned up!

I have a lot of windows. It costs 43.00 each time the window cleaner comes. When I was a single parent I had 6 windows and I couldn't afford a window cleaner.

We don't have a window cleaner and we clean our own cars.

We actually could afford to, but would prefer to save the money.

I think it depends what hours you work - if both working full time, totally understand not wanting to spend weekends cleaning the whole house and it seems less of an ‘indulgence’.

I work part time (20ish hours a week), DH works full time and alot of hours. I can clean the house and a cleaner absolutely would be an indulgence. We still enjoy every weekend and it keeps me fit on my day off (DH also helps with everything when off).

I do think it’s an indulgence if you do actually have time to do it (I do).

Agree! I do have a window cleaner (as he’s only slightly put up prices in the last decade and is brilliant) but I do really enjoy cleaning my own home and couldn’t justify £20 an hour in our area 😅 Also clean our own cars . Never been to the gym, clean on my day off and through the week and it keeps you so fit! Still enjoy every weekend too.

I would only ever consider it if we worked long full time hours then probably would want the weekends free whilst the kids are young.

Ok throwing my tuppence worth in

Scottish/working class area, both DH&I self employed decent combined income moneys obv tighter now than 4y ago but that’s life and kids get older & more expensive

we have had a cleaner 2h fortnightly for 6/7y - i’ll add i work from home

plenty of people have judged me for a cleaner but my cleaner once a fortnight costs less than the takeaway we as a family of 5 have just eaten

yes a cleaner is a “luxury” but it’s also like running a tumbler dryer, having a takeaway etc convenient

my cleaner takes a huge physical & mental load off me knowing certain tasks are done and I just maintain

are we judging people who smoke cause smoking costs a hell of a lot more than a cleaner - but seems to be accepted, the same as a family buying bottles of wine/vodka regularly

I don't know anyone who judges anyone for having a cleaner.

I can't fathom how people afford to drink and smoke in this current market, food costs enough without adding cigarettes and alcohol into the mix. But I don't enjoy either of those things so they're not a priority for me.

If I could justify the expense of a cleaner I would happily outsource our cleaning. But I can't, and I can find the time to clean so I don't pay for it.

Don't get me wrong, I wish I could afford a cleaner and I'm probably jealous of those who can, but is an indulgence and a luxury. We both work FT and my DG does more housework than me (I'm the higher earner and work silly hours). The OP itself was goady.

It is a luxury. Nothing wrong with it if you can afford it. But it’s naive to think it’s anything other than a luxury.

I learned to clean properly when I worked in a cat shelter. Techniques, tools, order of doing things.

It definitely is a skill, and a bright person will do it better than a less intelligent one.

My sister graduated directly into the 2008 recession, and worked as a waitress in a high end restaurant. She introduced systems for things like coats, bill splitting etc, which made the whole restaurant more efficient.

But then again most people can learn the basics of these jobs and perform them adequately.

Yes it’s a luxury because you are paying someone to do something you could do yourself. There is nothing wrong with it if you can afford it - but you need to acknowledge that many people cannot afford it.