To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

It’s a very white British thing and I think it’s internalised misogyny honestly. In other cultures it would be considered selfish to have the income to hire home staff but not do so and instead spend the money on something which didn’t provide someone with an income.
Like you say, it tends to be traditionally female ‘jobs’ that are considered luxury to outsource. Having someone come and trim your hedges doesn’t seem to elicit the same internal and societal shame.

Years ago I used to have a cleaner, but actually that was after we had a child. After maternity leave I went back to work 4 days a week and I didn't want to spend my extra day off catching up with chores, I wanted to spend it doing things with DD. We were not massively high earners but we could easily afford her rates. We continued to use her for about 15 years but eventually decided it was no longer necessary.

My elderly FIL now has a cleaner but he is in his 90s and really wasn't coping.

Of course it is a luxury- many cannot afford it. But that doesn’t mean it's a bad thing. There is absolutely nothing wrong about outsourcing something you don't want to spend time doing

So how does it work in offices, do you have a rota who does the cleaning this evening? Or are you exploiting an office cleaner? What about hotels, is it OK to have cleaners there, or should all guests just run a hoover around and scrub the bathrooms before they leave? Still just cleaning up after themselves.
(I hope most people don't expect their cleaners to scrub literal skidmarks.)

I would no more dream of using a window cleaner or getting someone else to clean my car than I would getting a cleaner for my house. I would hate to have a stranger coming into my house to clear up after me and clean my bathroom - I’m afraid I don’t see having a cleaner as a luxury, and most people I know who have one do so because they are too lazy to do their own cleaning.

Years ago I had an Indian friend who was from quite a wealthy family in Delhi. He said that in his circles people would think bad of them if they did not employ servants. He said it was expected as it provided work for people.

I’m with you op. I could but don’t do my own garden, or wash my own windows. I see cleaning the house in the same vein, I could do it, but I hate cleaning!

And if you earned minimum wage which is £12 something then it would definitely be a luxury surely. I've had a cleaner in the past, I don't now but yeah it's a luxury.

My father is also from a wealthy colonial background. He was brought up with an entire staff of servants, never mind a cleaner!!

Read the thread. I've done all this already.

People keep coming back to you because you are talking absolute nonsense.

Because deep down people feel it is demeaning to ask another human clean your shit (literally, s in cleaning someone else’s toilets and manky showers full of hairs and gunk)

it feels a bit embarrassing because you are asking someone to do something you would not be happy to do for another person yourself

unlike being a plumber, even though they also deal with toilets, as we respect them more as they do things we are NOT able to do ourselves 😁

with plumbers we also feel shame but it is about our own incompetence

with cleaners we feel shame because we ask them to do a job we hate to do for ourselves and would not contemplate doing for strangers unless we would be really desperate for money

personally I think a lot of this is nonsense and I think good cleaners are professionals and can do s as much better job than me.

but yeah it is a UK thing to feel so confused about it 😁

Ah, it's the piss take then. Well played.

I grew up poor. My DM did cleaning (and many other jobs which were all that was available to women needing flexible hours). She was bright but poor and had to leave school at 14 to bring money in. She self educated and was doing well at work when she was sacked for being pregnant (the policy in most workplaces).

I don’t know when this golden era of SAHMs was but it certainly was never the case for most WC women who might be listed in the census as “home duties” but who held down a patchwork of jobs to make up the family kitty each week. My DM was always annoyed at being listed as not working when she was.

I also took on cleaning with the patchwork of jobs during college years - my family were supportive but there wasn’t much money to spare at the time for all of us to swan off without earning our own keep along the way.

Their support enabled us to study longer and do well. I employed a cleaner the day I could afford it and I have no regrets. Do our cleaners judge us? Possibly, probably but who cares? I judge my clients as well. I disagree that its unskilled work - a good cleaner and an “amateur” are very different beasts.

IME people who grew up poor rarely snark about women employing cleaners. Its usually a particular type of MC liberal who sees women employing cleaners as some form of inadequates and want their cleaner sisters out of work.

Enjoy the time it creates for you, look after your cleaner and don’t give a shit for the sneerers.

Define lazy? I work full time, parent 2 children, one with SEN, am doing a part time MBA, go to the gym 4 times a week, walk 15-20k steps a day, run a few times a week, organise play dates and social activities. Occasionally I have some down time to watch a movie or read a book. I could spend that down time cleaning but given everything else I have on my plate I choose not to. I can't see how that is lazy

You’re a puritan, I’m a hedonist 😹

So you'd keep the cleaner but not be able to feed your kids???

I agree OP. There is something about having a cleaner that seems to irritate others.
I don’t have one, mostly due to my working class upbringing that it is somehow wrong to pay someone to do housework.
I would rather pay someone to clean than have my nails done, ( I don’t currently do that either).
I was chatting to a neighbour about this recently, and she is getting on in years and was questioning whether or not to employ someone to help with heavier cleaning but was not sure that her husband would agree.
I resisted saying he could do his share if he didn’t want a cleaner, but did point out that as he has got older he has started to pay for someone to trim their hedges, paint several rooms and do basic car maintenance- all of which he used to do previously.
It only seems to be things that are seen as traditional female jobs that people object to outsourcing.

I tidy so our cleaner can clean.
In between of course you have to still clean to a hygienic standard, but I don't clean my windows or vacuum the bedrooms in between her visits.

How true

I agree, I find it a UK thing. Why would I feel shame at employing a cleaner, window cleaner, gardener or car washer? I can do all those jobs, I have done several of them and I don’t give a hoot what the smuggerati think.

I don't have any kids. Funny that nobody seems to see having children as a luxury, isn't it?!

I just love the term smuggerati and am going to steal it!

When you pay for the products insurance petrol costs etc that's not exactly laughing all the way to the bank territory

Of course it's a luxury.
If money was tighter it would be one of the first things many people would give up.
If i was down to my last tenner i wouldn't be spending it on getting my car washed.
Likewise with a cleaner. Say 2 hours a week at 20 quid an hour 40 quid a week that's £160 a month. That's about a third of someone's wages on minimum wage. Rough figures I know but honestly if you can't understand why some people see that as a luxury you need to read the room more