To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

I’ve had one on and off since I was living in a share house with 2 friends. Not for one minute have i ever felt guilt! I pay someone to do something I don’t want to do because I can afford to. It’s not that much different to ordering in food, is it?

Don’t thing they are as luxurious as they once were. There are loads on offer were I am which means they aren’t that expensive. I don’t have one but 💯 will when I have no childcare costs.

I think because the hourly rate is quite high. I understand this is because they are often self employed. But it averages £19-£23 an hour here.

I dont have any morality issues. I think if you can afford it, and someone wants to do the work its great. I dont think domestic cleaning is some horror job. Its a bit physical, has some chemicals you can be careful with - but its not gross like dealing with blocked plumbing or drains.

Its just it would be a luxury for me to pay someone more than I earn in an hour to do something I can do. Sometimes its worth the luxury if you hate something, but cleaning is ok to me. Some other things I cant do, like fixing a boiler. Toilets id have a go until I couldnt.

I agree with this. I work hard and when I am not working I want to spend my time with my kids. Having a cleaner and a gardener allows me to do this.

That said I don't have any expensive hobbies and spend hardly anything on clothes etc, because those are not priorities for me.

What does a cleaner do once a week? Do you not clean your toilet, kitchen etc more frequently? This is what I never understood. Having kids my floors need cleaning every day I couldn’t leave them all week

Lucky for her they do or she would be 50% down on customers....

Your last paragraph works as well if you replace the word cleaner with "sex worker", btw.

In both cases, I don't feel the worker is doing something shameful, but I don't respect the people who employ them.

No, the OP is about the hatred of people who use cleaners, people getting told to do it themselves. If you read it back you'll see the point she is making. And there are plenty of posts on this thread that illustrate her point "I look down on people who use cleaners" is one example. Another is comparing it to child labour.

well as a society we have decided it's not in the best interest of children to work, they should be going to school instead. Why should we stop people from working as cleaners? Why is it a negative thing if someone decides to earn a salary by cleaning?

No-one "compared it to child labour."

I agree that it’s misogynistic in its heart. Women should clean their own houses. It’s all our internalised mothers and grandmothers criticising us and therefore others

Another is comparing it to child labour.
and sex workers

@MasterBeth Wow. Have you actually spoken to anyone who has chosen to be cleaner or are you just deciding on their behalf that they shouldn’t be employed by anyone? Will you be paying their salary instead?

This is the kind of patronising, internalised misogynistic twaddle that I was talking about. Making decisions on the behalf of the poor cleaners who are too stupid to look after themselves and need the help of more educated folk like you to save them from themselves, eh?

I'm not going to be confused why people treat a periodic cook as a luxury but I share OP's bafflement at how much disdain using a cleaner (or a cook) it causes at mumsnet, or in the Guardian's comments.

And don't think weekly cleaner is really a luxury. As long a person is making per hour more than they pay a cleaner (which is basically more than 15-20 per hour) it is very ecomically logical to outsource weekly cleaning to someone else (espeically for someone working full time - weekends are precious).

As long as a person is capable of cleaning and makes a choice above, I don't see any moral superiority in NOT using a cleaner either.
There is obviously a need to clean / tidy up in between cleaner's visits and a I know how to clean everything (I used to have to handwash my bedding for christsake because we didn't have a washing machine and clean the flat without modern detergents) so if I can't afford a cleaner I absolutely can keep the house clean. (I can make and mend my own clothes and grow potatoes but I don't judge people who go to the dry cleaners for mending or to a supermaket for produce!)

If someone would die in filth without a cleaner I can justify moral superiority but not otherwise.

I don't think we should stop people working as cleaners.

I think we should all take responsibility for cleaning our own spaces.

There's a couple of women in my town who absolutely adore cleaning . The local news did an article about them. They decided to channel their energy into setting up a home cleaning business. They built it up and employed others to work for them. They do a roaring trade and put money into the economy as well as employing people who dont mind hard work.
Its hardly forcing children up chimneys
🤣

Who knew this was such an emotive subject? 🥴

The sex work argument again, I see.

My mum worked as a cleaner and I also worked as a cleaner while I was at university.

I now do a job I love and earn more than enough to pay my cleaner £20 per hour.

I am the one laughing all of the way to the bank.

It’s just so infantilising. A couple of my friends do cleaning part-time as it works around their childcare, and they are most certainly not in need of a white knight proclaiming they are here to save them from being exploited.

@MasterBeth Really take some time to examine the internalised misogyny you have, it’s so blatant and depressing on a forum for women.

I bave a cleaner and had for at least 2 decades i dint feel particularly guilty she s treated and paid well and need to the money. However she is not the best and i could clean better and faster but i dont have the time and she needs the money and is lovely so I keep her.

but @Gahr it IS a luxury, I m
not indulging myself in the sense that I work and run the house, my husband works long hours and awaw a lot, so I dont have time but if i need in the future to cut down on something it will be the cleaning. Because it IS a luxury.

@Gahr you may not feel wealthy but you are becUse you can afford that luxury, it is very vulgar to not understand that in this cost of living crisis. You perspectives are skewed. Remember that outside the bubble you live in, there is the rest of the world

wow, comparing cleaner with sex worker 😆
mumsnet is crazy

you can compare ANY job with a sex worker then.

Ah so you are now equating cleaners with sex workers. You really don’t value women who clean for a living, do you? Every post, you reveal yourself a bit more.

but why?

I agree. I have had a cleaner in the past when I could justify spending the money on one and I would have one again if I worked all hours again.

What people fail to grasp is that by employing a cleaner, you are spending money on something you value and that is clean home and keeping someone employed to do so.

Even if we don’t think it, we outsource things we value. I personally prefer coffee that is made for me and others like getting their hair and nails done professionally.

I personally do my own nails but I certainly don’t judge those who get their nails done at the salon. It’s not a huge indulgence but over time it all amounts to up. If you’re working and able to pay all your bills unsupported, then I think you spend your money where you see fit.