To wonder why people keep voting SNP?

[Carla786]

I don't know a lot about Scottish politics and I may be missing important things they've done. However, I used to have a lot of respect for Nicola Sturgeon but her handling of gender critical issues has destroyed that. The SNP do not seem very effective at reducing drugs, poverty, or other serious issues.
My understanding was that quite a few people vote SNP not because they want independence (which most Scots appear to not want) but because they think the SNP are more committed to Scotland sorcifically than Tories and Labour. How accurate is this though..?

Since most Scots appear to not want independence, I thought the SNP was probably high achieving in other areas & Tories & Labour seen as poor by comparison. Or is it more often seen as the best of 3 bad options? Or is SNP much more positive than the impression I've got?

It as a short comment countering the comment before, based on my own family experience, not a detailed research paper! I wouldn’t exist if there was an international border between Edinburgh (where my mother grew up, though her family are from further north) and Northumberland, where my father grew up.

Whether or not you exist has nothing to do with Scotlands economy. My children wouldn't exist either

Marriages across the boarder and the children resulting from them are just one symptom of how the union increased economic opportunity and social mobility by giving people access to a larger range of opportunities.

It seems to be a very complex situation. The teachers I know say these kids are traumatised due to their home lifes. Domestic violence and addiction issues. The kids have no support at home with school work. One described some kids as being hyper vigilant manifesting in sudden outbursts of anger especially when being asked to do or not do something.

Great justification for empire

Which Scotland benefited just as much as England from even if they pretend otherwise.

Not sure what your point is

They’re going to defend this SPS policy https://www.sps.gov.uk/about-us/our-latest-news/policy-management-transgender-people-custody

which states

The policy outlines how transgender people will be first admitted into custody, where they are accommodated during their sentence, and how they are managed.
^^
It sets out an individualised approach which ensures that any transgender woman with a history of violence against women and girls (VAWG), who presents a risk to women and girls, will not be placed in the women’s estate.
^^
It is an approach which supports the rights of transgender people, and the welfare of others in custody, as well as SPS staff.

Now, you might feel that no trans woman should be in a women’s prison, regardless of risk assessment, and that’s fair enough, I might agree with you. That doesn’t change the fact that the original post I was challenging is complete and utter nonsense.

For anyone interested -

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2026/01/26/why-does-the-scottish-prison-service-hold-men-convicted-of-murder-in-the-female-prison-estate-a-policy-timeline/

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2024/02/12/mbm-submission-to-the-criminal-justice-committee-on-the-scottish-prison-service-transgender-prisoner-policy/

How is it nonsense that Scotgov are going to court to allow them to put certain males in female prison? That’s the fundamental basis of the court case. Transwomen are biologically male, they are all legally male for the purposes of the equality act.

But that’s not what the original comment claimed. The comment I called bullshit on came from @ThatBlackCat who wrote:

“The Scottish government is going to court to have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons”

The SNP in my opinion is the best argument against Scottish independence.

But if they’re not fighting for them to go into the male estate, where else are they fighting for them to go? There isn’t a third option.

They’re not fighting for “them” to go anywhere, they’re defending the existing policy which looks at the specifics of each individual case to decide, much the same as in England. And the challenge is that it should be clear cut based on biological sex, with no trans women being placed in women’s prisons at all - I happen to agree with that challenge but the point remains that they’re not doing it to
“have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons”
which was the comment I was calling out as nonsense.

Your take on it is different to the one I’ve called out though, where the poster claimed they’re going to court to
“have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons”
They’re not doing that, they’re going to court to defend the current policy which is to make decisions on a case by case basis and yes that could result in a trans woman being placed in a female prison. It’s absolutely fair enough to challenge that and say no trans women at all should be in a women’s prison, but why not just say that instead of writing this hyperbolic bullshit.

Scottish government policy. They believe in ‘inclusion’ which means all kids in mainstream. So you have kids who for whatever reason are exceedingly violent in a mainstream classroom who cannot help but try to beat up kids, teachers, the head. They trash classrooms and schools work. One of my sons has a classmate who rips up everyone’s work regularly. He’s not a bad kid, just has ASD meltdowns, Broughton usually by being asked to sit in a classroom and listen, and this isn’t something he can do.

But the Scottish government can’t go back now as they’ve closed the special schools and happily banked the cash. There are some special schools, but they need 3 x more. Most importantly of all they need to reopen pupil referral units and ship the naughty kids there. 95% of kids simply want to go to school to learn in a calm, safe, environment and they don’t have this currently, and educational standards are plummeting and pupil anxiety is soaring.

schools need to be allowed - encouraged even - to exclude dangerous pupils from mainstream classrooms in order to effectively safeguard pupils.

This isn’t tricky stuff. Any member if the public could say that closing pupil referral units would endanger pupils and teachers. But we have the SNP and thinking seems to be a real issue for them.

I would suggest at this point that other readers just google it.

When this violent man was approved for transfer to the female estate after risk assessment by SPS then we don’t believe them. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64438457.amp

Just following the tribunal tweets on this. Counsel for For Women Scotland is struggling to combat the Scottish governments case on this as the Scottish government’s case is such abject nonsense it’s hard to take it seriously.

I agree with you broadly here. Two points though.

1. The ASN schools were closed before we had a parliament, so by the Tories - not by a Scottish party.
2. We do still have referral units. They’re now called “behavioural schools” ( I worked in one)

I agree that the assumption of mainstream isn’t working though.

Who are in these behavioural schools then, when virtually no child is ever permanently excluded? Do people go there voluntarily? I mean it’s probably the very best outcome for the child.

But the SNP continued the trend. They have been in power for 19 years and have closed approximately 250 schools. Education is a devolved matter so the Tories were never in charge of it. It was Labour who started it. Why did the SNP continue… no doubt to save money.

Children who can’t be excluded due to SG policy.

It wasn’t devolved in the 90s when these schools were closed, there was no devolved powers as there was no parliament to devolve them to.

Which type of schools have they closed?There was an amalgamation of schools during the PFI disaster but that was Labour.

Yes, I thought the inclusion policy was also affecting English schools, albeit to a lesser degree.