To think my Grammar School DD 2 with an IQ of 119 should be aiming for at least Grade 7's in all her GCSE subjects.

[redange]

My DD'2 is currently in the process of choosing her GCSE options for next year year 10 and at a Girls Grammar School in Essex. However, I am seriously upset with her attitude at the moment regarding what she thinks grades she should be achieving at the end of year 11. The, schools expectations are grade 7 and above for all subjects . The, other problem is because DD is in year 9 she obviously did not do her SATS at 11 so I have no predicted pathway to convince her. DD'2 has convinced herself, she will only be capable of at best 'all' grade 5's at end of year 11 despite having a decent IQ of 119. For, the record DD 1 IQ is 122 and she is expected to get between 6- 8 GCSE's at 9 and the others at 7/8.
Am I reasonable to think she is just being lazy, or is she suffering from a little bit of confidence, due to 'impostor' syndrome and her sisters likely results. I have looked at various sources online, which suggest that with a good study ethos her grades should not be hugely dissimilar to DD 1's. There, are also a couple of 'rebels' who are friends of hers playing up at school currently, for which the school believe is year 9 blues..

Those kids getting 8/9' in their GSCE's (like my niece) despite not doing homework are getting them because they have the understanding on how to cope in an exam and answer questions exactly how the exam board wants.

Precisely.

We've sailed past that in this family - not me though!😐

Can you please clarify the homework issue? Do you have to watch her because she doesn’t do her homework? Did you just set an arbitrary time? Does the school set 2h homework every night and she has actual tasks to do?

162 on the last test I did (sometimes for fun). But it's logic rather than anything that helps for passing exams or having ridiculous qualifications. Makes me good at my job though.

I'm sorry about what happened to that child. 5/6s don't ruin a child's life but 8/9s help.

There's a difference between berating a child for getting less than expected and encouraging them to reach and achieve their full potential. There's a difference between how you go about doing it.

I'm Indian and we value education and hard work. I did push all my children to achieve what i knew they were capable of. We know the benefit a good education brings.

Because I'm allowed an opinion 😅😅😅

This is mad OP. Are you standing outside her bedroom with a clock? No one needs to put this amount on pressure on a year 9 FFS.

@redange very few year 11 students gain all grade 9s. Like literally about 1200 in 2024 IIRC. That's a tiny percentage.

I think on MN and no doubt elsewhere, it feels as tho everyone gains all 9s or all 8s and 9s. Let’s face it, people whose DC score highly are more likely to flag it. I really worry about the pressure to gain all 9s that YP are under, either from themselves or others (peers, parents). There are some very sad stories on this thread.

I don't see a lot of people berating you for your English tbh, but I think the reason people have focused on the IQ is bc it felt like your focus in your OP, and it’s not super relevant.

Your DD is at a grammar school so she is clearly able; encourage and support her but try not to put pressure on her.

Just reading your post is giving ME anxiety op! Perhaps your dd is trying to tell you something about how she’s feeling around all these expectations and pressure? As others have said, she’s a human (and still so young), not a robot required to churn out the highest number grades. Comparing her to her sister is also potentially very damaging psychologically, believe me I should know.

I’m also autistic, as is my dd - as a fellow ND person surely you’re aware of the consequences of too much pressure and potential to burnout op?

Yes Ivyy I am aware of Burnout.

Then stop pushing. Let her be.

Clary. The fact is when I am not rushing I can write very well and have had articles published around Politics. when I was active in politics.

I don't see any issue with your posts – I meant to say that before.

Most people make errors when posting online tbh. I know I do and my job is to write accurately. We understand what you mean which is the important thing.

I get it, I’m also from a different culture and I do value education and a good work ethic.I want her to be the best she can be and to try. I’m just trying to find the balance between that and the reality that sometimes shit happens, regardless of what she’s capable of. Basically, to parent the child I have , at that particular moment.

For example , the week before SATS I had to have surgery and was fairly out of commission for the whole week and her grandmother died. We couldn’t have predicted that happening or how she would react to it, regardless of her academic ability. She could’ve failed, scored as average or greater depth (as she was expect to). I just said try your best, whatever happens, we’ll figure it out. I’m tackling GCSEs the same way. Go for pass (shouldn’t be an issue unless something completely unexpected happens again), keep revising, keep working hard, keep trying your best. You can achieve more, you need more for what you want to do so that’s the ideal, however if anything goes tits up for whatever reason, we’ll figure it out, you have options.

I have to add, she’s suspected autistic, waiting for an assessment and already has issues with anxiety and confidence, so I’m possibly a bit more mindful than most (plus our recent experiences) about striking that balance.

My DC in grammar schools never did 2 hours work every evening until shortly before GCSEs. Starting maybe (if I was lucky) some time during the Lent term of Year 11. Before that it was much more 30-60 minutes most evenings, and not always.
All kids need to learn how to revise and good exam techniques primarily. I think you are much better off trying to help her focussing on quality of work not quantity.
And for both my girls Year 9 was the height of drama and friendship drama. By Year 10 things get serious and they tend to settle down more.
I also think it is unrealistic to expect top performance in all subjects. They need to meet the bottom line if they want to stay for Sixth Form, but most of them find some subjects easier and more enjoyable than others. As the whole education system is geared towards A levels and picking your true strength then, it is OK to bear that in mind as well.

You are 'upset with her attitude'. This sounds like a you problem. What I hear is a girl lacking in confidence and self belief and I don't think you being upset with her attitude is going to help her at all.

People love to point out spelling and grammar errors on here. Don’t let it get to you. Spelling and grammar has never been my strong point either.

but honestly. Just let your dd2 be. As the mother of two dds who are probably a bit like your dds, dd1 is very hard working and high achieving and used to stress herself out so much during A levels (GCSEs weren’t taken as covid cohort) that she made herself ill and unhappy. She is however, much better at uni and not putting as much pressure on herself.

dd2 has always just been more chill. She’s just as bright and much better than dd1 naturally at things like academic writing but has never stressed herself to do more than what is needed. She did what she had to to get into the college course she wanted and no more. A string of 5s and 6s at gcse. I left her to it. It’s her future and she was doing better than me at that age, my mum banging on at me only made me less able to focus and apply myself. Anyway. She’s just got an offer for grades she’s pretty sure of for the uni she wants to attend for the course she wants to do. No one will give a hoot about her gcse results form now on. Your dd will be fine and find her own way.

You can have a high IQ but still find things difficult. My son’s is higher but he has dyslexia, ADHD and Dysgraphia. He may get 9s in some subjects and 5s in others

My typing on here can be terrible, my fingers are stiff, I rush and I can barely read the screen. It doesn’t matter at all. My attention to detail at work is excellent.

Back at the end of the 1960s, before we knew better, IQ tests were all the rage. I duly sat mine, along with the rest of my class at an ordinary state primary. My mum (a primary school teacher) asked me when I got home how it went. "Oh fine", I said. "I missed out all the ones with numbers because I didn't like them, but the rest were easy". My mum must have stressed, because so much of the test was numbers, but said nothing. I got 120, which I have always considered very low. I went on to get a high 1st class modern languages degree from an ancient university, with distinction in spoken language, and then a PhD. The (numberless) IQ test result was irrelevant, tho I still count on my fingers! I achieved academically because I found a sphere I adored. My parents never once pushed me to do homework or even supervised it. All they said was "try your best and you can't do any more. As long as you try it doesn't matter what the result is." I tried my best with Maths and still had to resit O level to get into university.
Spend your effort encouraging your daughter to enjoy her learning. Amount of homework time is immaterial. I could have spent all evening on Maths with no improvement, whereas I dispatched all the language based work in half an hour.

I think the government scrapped homework guidelines a while ago, in large part because the data that X amount of time = certain results is a bit of a classic correlation does not equal causation and surveys need to always be taken with a pinch of salt. As you noted yourself, someone saying they studied for a certain amount of time doesn't make it true. I often worked at the table with my DD2 while she studied, which is how I know the time, I couldn't give it to you reliably for my older children.

With IQ, I get it's useful in the context of getting a child support as it can give a general idea - but IQs aren't actually fixed. We have strong evidence that certain things impact IQ both temporarily and in the long term, so while people may give a certain number and It's unlikely to drop 30+ points without a significant injury, it's still only the score at the time of the test. It gives a general area so great for arguing a child needs education to match that area, not for specifics on exam results. And as many said, it has little to do with how well a child will do at GCSEs or why a child may set a target lower than their perceived ability. Many very smart people prefer to set a lower target than they are capable to take the pressure off and feel better exceeding it. Not everyone feels motivated by aiming at the top.

Yes to all of this. This is all that matters in the corporate world I’m afraid. Most everyone is smart where I work but the really successful people are those with amazing interpersonal skills and high level of confidence.

OP, your daughter being in a grammar school means she might be considered average and that’s not necessarily because she’s is average but because she is average for the cohort she in where most kids (not all) are high achievers. She sees it and she knows it and that might be what’s knocking her confidence. This was certainly my own personal experience when I was in a very high achieving school. And the one thing that really really makes a difference in terms of future success is the confidence you have in your abilities and within your environment. So I would consider if this is the right environment for her and if it might be the reason why she is not feeling like she can do it. It’s the reason I sent my son (with a higher IQ than your daughters) to the local comp and he is thriving. Just something to think about.

A mum has posted about her kids’ IQ. I am cringeing at the adults here falling over themselves to mention their IQs and Mensa memberships. Like moths to a flame ;-)

Gcses and IQ do show a correlation.

But i dont think they looked at it terms of people with 140 get 9s, people with 120 get 7s etc. I think they looked at people getting 5 gcses at grade 5 or above and found it was correlated that those getting 5, 5s had higher IQ levels than those that didnt.

Im surprised by the number of people saying they have high iqs then posting above average gcse results and saying they didnt do well to prove IQ doesnt correlate. The average gcse grade is 4.8 and less than half the population get a 5 or above in both English and Maths.

Obviously its not an exact match and things like stress, motivation, illness, specific learning difficulties and so on factor too. But there also isnt zero link.

Anyway, the little girl needs less pressure, and op needs to relax.

But I do think op was just trying to give context rather than brag.

It’s tongue in cheek 🙈