To think my Grammar School DD 2 with an IQ of 119 should be aiming for at least Grade 7's in all her GCSE subjects.

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My DD'2 is currently in the process of choosing her GCSE options for next year year 10 and at a Girls Grammar School in Essex. However, I am seriously upset with her attitude at the moment regarding what she thinks grades she should be achieving at the end of year 11. The, schools expectations are grade 7 and above for all subjects . The, other problem is because DD is in year 9 she obviously did not do her SATS at 11 so I have no predicted pathway to convince her. DD'2 has convinced herself, she will only be capable of at best 'all' grade 5's at end of year 11 despite having a decent IQ of 119. For, the record DD 1 IQ is 122 and she is expected to get between 6- 8 GCSE's at 9 and the others at 7/8.
Am I reasonable to think she is just being lazy, or is she suffering from a little bit of confidence, due to 'impostor' syndrome and her sisters likely results. I have looked at various sources online, which suggest that with a good study ethos her grades should not be hugely dissimilar to DD 1's. There, are also a couple of 'rebels' who are friends of hers playing up at school currently, for which the school believe is year 9 blues..

It's not a lot of pressure. Asking for all 8s and 9s would be. Getting majority 7s should be fine and achievable for someone who attends a grammar school.

Telling any child what they 'should' get is pressure. They get what they get, and as long as they try their best on the day, that is what matters.

People have no right putting their expectations on a childs shoulders.

I assume your DD realises she’s not the top of the tree in her year group and so believes she’s only capable of grave 5s.

From my experiences of grammars, I imagine the super-competitiveness of it all is making her feel terrible about herself and her abilities. In an ordinary high school, she’d probably be in a top set and being told she can push hard to achieve anything.

IQ tests are not really useful for predicting outcomes at GCSE either - ask the school what they use to predict.

The main thing you should do is focus on your DD’s happiness and resilience. She is obviously bright and capable but not the top tier of grammar which is making her feel so low about herself.

IQ and academic ability are not related

IQ and grammar school is irrelevant tbh - they all do the same GCSE's.

Most of it comes down to motivation, and solid revision.

FWIW my [painfully lazy] son was very bright, esp in Maths, until around year 8, and then he decided he would coast through the rest of his education with zero effort. He went from predicted 8's and 9's to 3's (English) - 5's in Y10 mocks. The turning point was a) him realising he needed to actually choose a path after secondary school and b) the path he chose requiring minimum 5's in English and 7's in Maths and Science. He started Y11 doing zero revision or preparation, even though I made a solid weekly revision schedule for him, and found ALL of the resources he needed to help him. Winter Y11 mocks came around with zero improvement (he didn't engage with my revision help) and he spent the remainder of the academic year holed up in his room with me (I know, I know) sat supervising almost constantly. He ended up with 8's across the board - crazily got the same in in English as he got in Maths, which he was supposed to be one of the best at in his school, purely because of the amount of revision he did for it.

Tldr: they can be super intelligent and the school could be the best in the country, but if they don't revise solidly at home, it's all irrelevant.

OP, IQ does not determine success in life. You would have been better off explaining how hard your DD has to work to maintain her average class ranking. If that's already the best she can do, she won't do 2 hours of homework a night (I don't blame her!) and she's not really engaged with school, she's not going to achieve the highest grades. Which isn't the end of the world, and is a fact you should tell her. Tell her you expect her to do her best, but whatever happens, you love her, life goes on and she'll be alright, no matter the outcome.

Have you asked her why she thinks she can only achieve a grade 5? You may very well be right and, under the right circumstances, she could achieve a higher score. But maybe she has more awareness of what is effecting her. Is the school the right one for her? Does she see classmates giving the appearing of breezing through topics which takes her weeks of hard work and hours or revision for her to just barely grasp? Does she deal well in a high pressure, exam driven environment? If not, you're really just setting her up for failure.

Even if it is pressure, so what? A bit of pressure is needed. GCSE aren't the make or break in life but they are an important stepping stone.

GCSE influences what A-Levels you take. 5/6s aren't going to translate to As and A*s at A-Level. A-levels influence university.

It's perfectly normal for parents to expect an academic child who goes to a grammar school to get at least 7s. There's a reason they aren't at the local comprehensive.

i dislike it because telling a child what they 'should' get can do damage.

I'm currently dealing with a situation where my DC's school have stuck a label on her pass that says "expected: pass" "aiming for: merit" not quite the wording but DD keeps telling me that its clear the school don't expect much of her, so why go the extra mile.

I’m incredibly biased because a child at DD’s school tried to kill themselves during mocks week. They have not returned to school, are disabled and haven’t sat their GCSE’s at all. Mostly caused by pressure and “failing “ and getting 5/6’s when they were supposed to be an 8/9. A 5 or a 6(or even a fail) won’t ruin or end a life , that jump could’ve. Another child in DD’s class hasn’t been at school since mid last year. Again , an expected high achieving child and it’s partly due to that pressure/expectation. Whether they’ll do their GCSE’s or what grades they’ll is the last thing on their parents mind atm, they’re too busy hiding all the sharps and other dangerous objects around the house and trying to keep their kid alive.

OK, so you're going into the Y9 Options season.

'Look, you got high enough in your 11+ to get a place at the school. This means by default that you are easily capable of 5-7 at anything you choose, if not higher, as they wouldn't have offered you a place if you weren't. You are smart. Now, what subjects are you interested in taking for GCSE? What subjects do you like? Are there any new ones they're offering? What do you think about those? Are there any you think you definitely don't want to do? Why's that? OK, so not that'.

'I'm sure there are girls who are going to get all 9s and there will be some that won't. They don't matter to me, I care about you and what you want - and it hurts to think that you believe you aren't smart because you're comparing yourself against others. I know you will do amazingly, whatever you choose, the important thing is for you to be happy. So, what do you want to do? Have a think about it.'

It takes away the pressure she could be feeling from you, it focuses upon her wants and needs, rather than your desire for her to get high grades, it makes for a far more pleasant conversation than you banging on about IQ and numbers and her sister and your desires (which is how she could be interpreting it, that you're concerned about how she makes you look, not that you love her and want her to be happy, confident and free to make her own decisions).

It's really bizarre being that fixated on IQ. How did you even find that out? It's not something schools usually measure...

Stop worrying about numbers and talk to your DD. Really listen to what she says.

It reads like you do a lot of steam-rolling. Not listening, and saying a lot of "Well, I think..." and "I know that..."

What does her IQ have to with it? 119 isn’t even that high.

But the school would have given her expected levels in year 7.

If she's not achieving them, have you spoken to the school?

I'd do that, and then find out what's going on with her.

And just because she's at a grammar doesn't mean she'll come out high, it's often a culture shock that there are others who are way ahead of you when you've been accustemed, at primary, to being top dog academically

I think OP should tell her DD that she's a bright young woman can she can definitely do well at GCSEs. Ask her "why do you think you'll only get 5s" and then have a chat about it.

Did they pass grammar test easily or just scrape through? With private prep should have cruised through if fairly bright.

Currently doing prep for Bucks grammar, and the tutors have said that children from private schools sometimes scrape in due to the intensive school prep, but aren't actually suited to Grammar, and end up feeling really rubbish as they are consistently bottom or near the bottom which knocks their confidence, and that maybe sounds like your daughter - she is being pushed beyond her reasonable expectations and is now pushing back?

Ultimately she has to make a decision on what she wants to acheive and put the work in.

well yes, it's why i said in a previous post that right now her focus needs to be on boosting her DD's confidence and faith in her own abilities, not on grade numbers.

Why have a significant number of posters turned on berating me for instance on my struggles with the written word (it is only on here where I get called out). Why would I Brag about an I Q of 119 when most posters on here apparently of IQ's in the 140-157 range. I would not brag about having a Ford Focus if my neighbor drove a Bentley. The ineradicable IQ's of most of the posters on here mean ca they are wasting both their own time and the United Kingdom's dwindling resources waffling on this site (these highly gifted people in the top 2% of the world's intelligence, need to be in Government working out strategies to grow the faltering economy ).

Seriously, the reason why I have IQ tested children is done to the fact to get the required education for my Adopted Son. Who has an IQ higher than both the girls, but due to his difficulties and educational perceptions among Professionals and Teachers is ECHP was originally giving him an education and expectations of grade 1/2 English/ Math's . I have written at length about my son on another part of this site, where the posters are more forgiving and probably hold views that are less typical of the majority of Mumsnetters.

The, I Q tests that have been undertaken by expensive Educational Psychologists have been vital in proving that my son should not be receiving an education below his academic ability. In hindsight, perhaps I am a bit over anxious about DD 2 at the time being. However, I find it very odd that all children are able to attain 9 grade 9's without spending half the suggested Government time on Homework each night. Thus, perhaps there is hope for the United Kingdom that the new generation are supremely gifted to ensure the Countries survival.

Similarly due to Irlen's/Dyslexia I cannot see sometimes missed out words and I am unable on this site after I have read it and sent it to re- edit.

They go the extra mile because it's on their interests to do so. My school predicted me C's at A level and tried to put that on my UCAS reference. I told my tutor - 'please predict me A's and B's as otherwise I wont get into my uni course, and if you predict it I promise I will get it'. After a battle they did, and I got 4 A's. Basically them under predicting gave me the drive to (mentally) stick a finger up at them to show them they were wrong. Tell your daughter to fight back and prove them wrong.

I have written a side-note, because I can see my last post has numerous mistakes miss words/ spellings and punctuation issues etc. This, to accept my faults but to highlight the 'nasty' sods who just go round looking for targets and have nothing useful to add to the debate.

I'm not as bright as some others here (137 when I last tried a test) - and I got AABBBBBCCCD (many, many years ago - and I couldn't even tell you which subject was which now, except for one of the Bs is Maths which I was smarting over because they decided to put us all in for the intermediate paper making an A - in my best subject - impossible)

My son (probably about the same brightness as me) just got basically identical results in his Junior cert (Irish GCSE equivalent - including for maths because he's dyspraxic and his hand writing makes maths the one exam he can't prove his level at as you can't type it).

That's not because I couldn't have hothoused him (or myself) but because that's plenty. In life, there is no point burning yourself out to be the top of the top - be adequate, and use the rest of your inner resource on more fulfilling things.

I currently have to make sure constantly that she is doing around 1 hour 20 minutes a night homework, because if I did not watch her she would lie to me how long she had spent on it !

My DD2 got 7s and 8s, and never did an 1 hour and 20 minutes per night in Year 9, even on the weekends/breaks.

There is a reason schools discuss building up homework and revision time - kids can burn out or become resistant the longer that kind of pressure is on them. 2 hours is more what I'd expect towards the second half of Year 11 - at a push. I don't think my DD2 did that much on school days, but would go beyond on weekends and breaks.

Your child may be aiming low due to low self esteem for all sorts of reasons - puberty sucks and/or having it drilling it into her that if she doesn't do X she's not going to get there and/or social reasons to not want to appear a swot and/or many other reasons. It could also be that she'd rather pick a safer target/a minimum so she can have the joy of smashing it and less risk of disappointment. Either way, telling her off about it is unlikely to help.

My DD2 has had teachers even into college that discussed that she tends to aim lower than she can do, that she picks comfortable targets - she'd prefer to smash it out of the park by getting well above expected. It may be frustrating to some, but I don't think that's automatically a wrong way to look at it - for her, it's the least she wants to get to meet her goals so that's the target and when she inevitably gets above it, that's just extra cause for celebration.

having just been through GCSE's with my daughter last year, would it help if i said that some children just have the mind/brain for exams?

IQ really is irrelevant if a childs brain doesn't work the way the Exam style needs them to. My DD is quite bright, again, like me, she has AuDHD, you ask her anything about history, maths..etc, she knows the answer, and did get a pass in her maths exams.. but anything that needed essay answers, she flunked, simply because her brain doesn't understand or grasp the concept of essay style question answers. She's retaking English at College and flying through their exams/assessments because they're teaching it differently and its clicked for her... a child who got a 2, is now getting 8/9 equivalents (90%+)

Those kids getting 8/9' in their GSCE's (like my niece) despite not doing homework are getting them because they have the understanding on how to cope in an exam and answer questions exactly how the exam board wants.

My IQ is 158. Can anyone top that or do I win a prize?

GCSEs don't really make much of a demand on IQ (after a certain IQ level, which 119 would be above).

GCSEs are about slog and conscientiousness and preparation and knowing the syllabus. So yes, someone with an IQ of 119 should be able to score 7s.

Many, many students scoring 9s will have that sort of IQ level - except, perhaps Further Maths where I think you start to get some IQs well above that gathering together in a classroom.

And, ironically, it's the 140+ IQs who are often still winging it a bit on innate ability at that age and don't always demonstrate their ability.