To think my Grammar School DD 2 with an IQ of 119 should be aiming for at least Grade 7's in all her GCSE subjects.

[redange]

My DD'2 is currently in the process of choosing her GCSE options for next year year 10 and at a Girls Grammar School in Essex. However, I am seriously upset with her attitude at the moment regarding what she thinks grades she should be achieving at the end of year 11. The, schools expectations are grade 7 and above for all subjects . The, other problem is because DD is in year 9 she obviously did not do her SATS at 11 so I have no predicted pathway to convince her. DD'2 has convinced herself, she will only be capable of at best 'all' grade 5's at end of year 11 despite having a decent IQ of 119. For, the record DD 1 IQ is 122 and she is expected to get between 6- 8 GCSE's at 9 and the others at 7/8.
Am I reasonable to think she is just being lazy, or is she suffering from a little bit of confidence, due to 'impostor' syndrome and her sisters likely results. I have looked at various sources online, which suggest that with a good study ethos her grades should not be hugely dissimilar to DD 1's. There, are also a couple of 'rebels' who are friends of hers playing up at school currently, for which the school believe is year 9 blues..

Sure ;-)

I think the point though is it doesn't always correspond with GCSE grades - and lots have pointed that out when saying they had high IQ.

A handful of points higher on IQ isn't going to mean a grade higher on GCSE. Actually, a few handfuls more points won't guarantee it either.

They test entirely different things. Well, maybe not entirely, but you can't predict GCSE grades off an IQ score.

I think where people get misled is that competitive senior schools DO lean a lot on IQ. But that's different. It's because they trust themselves to teach well, and they feel the brighter the child, the easier their job will be. But its the TEACHING and preparation and not the IQ per se that gets the results in terms of national exams.

Op's DD has a perfectly functional IQ for the purposes of GCSE. With the right preparation it will get her 7's - and there is no reason she couldn't have 9s (NB OP all 9s is statistically low so don't be pushing her for that, but it is still probably a bad exam or good preparation etc that determines whether or not they get this NOT having a super IQ). OP needs to focus on her DD's motivation and how best to support her in that sense, rather than her IQ. The fact her sister has a few points more is genuinely neither here nor there.

Also, often people talking about their IQ mean those online tests which are not really accurate and tend toward markedly higher results than would be achieved on a WISC or SB. Even the CATS testing is only "pretty accurate." A full Wechsler test takes a lot of time and not that many people have actually done them.

How to write essays is a taught skill - it requires explicit explanation and example and repeated practice, often of small parts of the required method. Your DD has not been taught properly, I suspect. Now she is and is doing well - good for her.
NB No-one can have inbuilt understanding of exam technique since it is not primary knowledge (primary knowledge is things like learning to speak, which we all do naturally - most knowledge in schools is secondary e.g. learning to read and write, subjects etc.). It has to be taught, like essay writing.

I’m guessing only nightmare parents know their child’s IQ!

I’ve been teaching twenty+ years, taught at a grammar and attended a grammar, for what it’s worth. IQ scores from years before the GCSEs are irrelevant. Even the SATs aren’t that useful. She’s intelligent, yes, so should be aiming for higher grades. But the expectation that every single one should be at least a 7 (an A) is pressure that isn’t very helpful. Results will obviously depend on a combination of things - interest in the subject, time available to work on it if it’s got a coursework component, natural ability (art, drama, PE) listening in class, memory, rapport with the teacher, classroom behaviour, reading, note taking ability, revision methods, attendance etc etc. You seem very focused on data, numbers and comparison etc but your daughter isn’t in laboratory conditions.

She’s year 9; there’s a lot of time before you need to worry about her gcse grades! As most subjects don’t have foundation and higher papers any more, why does it matter at this stage what her predicted grades are? Sounds like there is a lot of pressure on her to do well - intentionally or otherwise - so maybe this is her act of rebellion? If her older sibling is a high achiever she probably feels the comparison and this is her face saving way of opting out. Is she also very aware of the IQ scores? Perhaps focussing on them and the fact her sister did (ever so slightly ) better is adding to it. As others have suggested, talk to her and reassure her that she is enough, whatever grades she gets. And give her a great big cuddle!!

I feel so sorry for your children. Nearly every post you are comparing them to their peers, each other and other posters.

Just chill out and encourage them to do their best. Mental health and confidence is so much more important than attained numbers.

And you don't need 8 GCSEs above 6 to get into college. Surrounded by excellent colleges where I live and all of them are 4 or 5 GCSEs above grade 4.

Yes, Essay writing is a taught skill, but for some people, you can teach the method and they will still not understand the concepts involved, especially with English literature (she did ok-ish on the language side and got a 4).

We think some of the issue was coming up against her ASD/ADHD.. she struggled with understanding the emotional context of what the E.Lit questions were asking her to read from the texts, and a total dislike of/disinterest in the chosen text (jekyll & hyde) and her ADHD just completely turning off her ability to do it at all due to lack of dopamine.. essays for her are just a huge pile of 'doesn't understand'.

The functional skills English exams don't rely on essay writing, it's multiple choice/straight answers in a question/answer format, which she finds SO much easier to comprehend.

I loved English Lit, that was one of my B grades, my issue was on the maths side.. at 16 i didn't see the point in putting all the 'working out' down as long as the answer was correct. My brain often finds the answers in seconds but rarely in the way the school was teaching it, lol. so my 'working out' was not what the exam board wanted, but i couldn't do it the way the exam board demanded and the school was teaching it.. quite simply, my brain didn't 'get' that method, but my own worked just as well. If i recall that was down to a change in how it was taught, my brain refused to accept the 'new method'.

That's what i mean by kids need to have the 'right brain' to do some of these exams.

I sympathise with you re the maths. The 'new' method of teaching was pointless and useless, based on the idea that if you used methods which made you 'see' the concept you would understand better. It didn't and doesn't. Explicit instruction in traditional methods with explanation of what is going on, works much better.

I think the books chosen for GCSE are boring - I don't think Jekyll and Hyde would have appealed much to me at 15 either. I think the classics must be taught but the choice seems so dull.

Glad your DD is succeeding now.

I agree with you about the dangers of comparison – it’s totally unhelpful and definitely to be avoided.

I wanted to flag though that while 4 or 5 x grade 4 GCSEs will certainly get you on to a valuable and worthwhile college course (and tbf no one has said it won’t), those grades will not be high enough for A levels, which may be what the OP’s DD would want to be targeting. We don’t know, and she may prefer a more practical or trade-directed course for sure.

Thanks, I agree but the OP said "52-53 combined points over 8 GCSE subjects which is required for 6th form entrance. " Which is 8 subjects with an average grade of 6.5

Agree though that some colleges prefer 7 or above to take that A level subject. My child got a 6 in gcse in their A level subject and went on to do well in it though.

@Goingncforthisone ah I see what you mean – I think the OP was talking about her DD’s specific grammar school sixth form; I have heard of grammars asking for 8 grade 7s for A level, which I agree seems a bit unnecessary (though I suppose they do it bc they can). A grade 6 in Eng lit is not going to be an issue for a scientist at A level. Well done to your DC.

Do you think she could be trying to tell you she doesn't want to go to the 6th form in question? That she might not feel a very academic path is for her?

Thank you and sorry if it sounded braggy about my dc. I just think it's a shame when kids when don't pursue a subject they love because they got below 7 in GCSE. I don't think it's always a marker of whether they will cope at A level.

I think A levels are very different to being spread thinly across 8+ subjects at GCSE. Plus different teachers etc.

They are more often than not assessed by CATS tests in the prep school system. So most of those parents will know them, the nightmares and the non-nightmares.

@redange
I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick re. People saying the IQ is irrelevant.
People can have a very high IQ but go to pieces in every day life / school.

Your DC has obviously done very well already to get into grammar school - so in this scenario has already proven that they can 'test well'
It seems that this low grade prediction is coming from the child - not the school.
Why do they feel like that?
Do they feel overwhelmed?
Are they fearing that they will disappoint you so are grade 'framing' in advance?

You need to look deeper into why your DC is telling you this.

Excellent post.

That's all very well and to the benefit of your son, but is fairly irrelevant where your daughter is concerned.

It's not a failure on your part to reassure her and trust her to do the work necessary - the absence of pressure to go higher than a 5 can make it more likely that she will do far better than that, as she isn't put in a mindset that identifies anything less than 12 x 9 as abject failure.

She could also be saying this not necessarily out of a belief she isn't capable, but as a way of taking pressure off from you (and herself, internal perfectionism is the enemy of good mental health). It could therefore be an extremely intelligent thing she is doing in trying to manage your expectations in advance and recognising what happens to others when a single grade 8 is seen as a complete disaster.

If she picks courses that interest her and she enjoys, it is highly likely that after a term or two, she realises that actually, she's more than capable of higher grades and will automatically work harder - not longer, more effectively - because she has developed confidence in herself and her subjects, particularly if she doesn't have the spectre of her mother saying she's failing/getting less than her sister/isn't as good as her sister/isn't good enough.

Take a position that she's not good enough, that she has to be perfect or you think she is a failure compared to you/her sister/what her brother would have been had he not also needed an EHCP and she's likely to buckle under the pressure. You don't want her to be able to say 'My mother? No, I was never good enough for her, everything was always ''why can't you be more like your sister?'' '.

Keep a narrative that you have confidence in her, trust her, love her, want her to be happy and all will be well.

Yes that's right the Essex Grammar Schools require between 50-54 points over 8 subjects which are among the highest entry requirements in the Country. For instance my sister is head of Sixth form at a Grammar School in Lincolnshire where Sixth Form requirements are 6 grades between 5-9 and only a grade 4 in English Language and Math's. This is still a school that despite relatively low requirements still averages around a grade B for A level and 86% at grade 5 English/Math's GCSE. This, shows that Grammar Schools represent the most able children in the area they cover or catchment and great regional differences can exist between two supposedly similar schools even based on FSM .

NeverDropYourMooncup · Today 16:43
redange · Today 11:13

Without evidence from Professionals my son would not be getting the relevant support from the state system. The ECHP and the school/authorities only recognize his intelligence down to countless tests taken by my son and the results they have confirmed which have been continually doubted. However, finally in year 10 we are finally on a pathway where he is expecting grade 4 in English/Math's . This is as far as the State System can take him, hence we are hopeful he can fulfill the obligations asked by the Non Selective Private School for the remainder of the school year in-order to repeat year 10 in September at the Private School . We are looking for him to take 6 GCSE's . My son was adopted under (kinship) hence the similar ages in my three children should anyone esquire !

I also do not want DD'2 aiming to achieve what I am hopeful for DS to achieve and actually she might be 'pulling' my leg or Bullying DS .

Inquire.

@redange - I was genuinely always more focussed on teachers’ reports as to my DC’s engagement in lessons, during the school day. Homework ist just consolidation. I think if they focus and participate in class well, they learn well. It is a long day for them even without homework. Hours of homework is not required. Once they get to GCSE Year 11, yes they need to revise the exam style questions and consolidate and prepare for mocks. However, before then they are learning the content and if your DD is engaging in class, that is more important. So I would speak to her about that primarily.

🏆

This forum is not necessarily a true cross-section of society and people sometimes exaggerate or change facts to suit a narrative or maintain anonymity, so basing your expectations on a lot of possibly made up posts is the road to madness.

For your info my son got Zilch.

No GCSEs at all?

When I read your post my initial reaction was "please, just chill the fuck out". You are coming across as having very intense feelings over this and I'm sure your DD will be picking up on the pressure.

I hope you can realise it is a huge privilege to be worried your dd might get 5s instead of 7s, when there are so many DC who would bust a gut working so hard, have just as high an IQ, and still struggle to pass at all. Or perhaps all the DC who cannot attend school at all. I find it quite interesting that you must have learned that grades are not everything already with your DS. I wonder why you treat your DD differently.