To not allow my 5 year old to go to a party tomorrow

[highhopes88]

My 5 year old son is a tricky customer. He's hilarious, outgoing, caring and imaginative but he struggles with his emotions and impulse control. He's in reception and his teacher is great at sharing strategies with us to help him with his emotional development and SENCO have given some tips too. At present they're not sure either way whether there is neurodiversity going on. Sometimes I think there might be, sometimes I think it's just his age and the face he's a boy that he struggles to listen to instructions etc. We don't know, and it's difficult because the obvious parenting strategies don't always work with him. We can't really use a 'hard-line' approach on anything because it's like a red rag to a bull. Instead we have to use a more gentle approach (not in the gentle parenting way before I get a million eye rolls!). I mean that instead of being direct with sanctions for poor behaviour, we have to give him time to cool off, think about his actions, then he'll seek us out and apologise and we'll discuss what he could do better next time. In the heat of the moment this strategy often feels counter-intuitive to us as if he's done something he definitely knows he shouldn't do and we feel like we should tell him off for it, we have to almost reign it in and explain what he did wrong etc and discuss how to improve next time. Does any of that make sense?!

ANYWAY today after school we were walking to the school car park and he said he didn't like the snack I'd brought him. I calmly said oh ok well next week let's talk about what we can have after school, anyway I've brought you a Freddo because it's Friday so you can have that. Almost as if he didn't actually hear the last part of the sentence he starts marching across the car park where there could be cars entering so I follow him and tell him it's dangerous and to get to the car. He then starts running round the car next to mine laughing hysterically. I try to say loudly that this isn't good behaviour and there'll be a consequence but he's too busy laughing and doesn't hear. I eventually decide it's safer if I just outrun him round the car and get hold of him however as I turn round the car I slipped, fell and hurt my arm. I was livid. All knowledge of my discussions with school about our gentle approach went out the window and I yelled at him to get to the car. I then told him he would not be going to his friend's birthday party tomorrow (Saturday).

I was so upset on the drive home. I was beyond angry that I do so much for him and invest so much time in adopting the right parenting approach for him yet everything just turns to shit no matter how hard I try. Now I'm humiliated in front of the school mums that I fell over and I just want to hit hard with a consequence that will actually get through to him - not going to the party.

I chatted to my husband tonight and he thinks we should follow through with it. To teach him there are consequences for poor behaviour. I just feel so bad. I worry that if he is neurodiverse he won't understand the link between his behaviour and the consequence and will just be emotionally scarred that he'll be the only one not attending this party from his class. (I know for sure everyone out of his class is going - it's a tiny class).

AIBU - the consequence doesn't fit the crime so let him go to the party
AINBU - the consequence of not going to the party is suitable and I shouldn't let him go

Thanks for reading!

As others have said, far too severe a consequence which at 5 yrs old would not even be able to be associated with the event. You need to have other consequences up your sleeve, so if you are stressed it comes easy to you, the consequence needs to be immediate, proportinate and followed through ( i would never remove dc's scooter as it would impact more on me). You may need help with his behaviour / speak with GP re approptiate referrals.

And gives mixed messages. How is a five year old supposed to know the difference, and more importantly parents should make differences.

Don’t do the party punishment- you’ll be annoying the party kid’s parents more than your DS. That was one punishment I never gave.

There's plenty of evidence that consistency and empathy in parenting are more effective than punitive consequences for reducing behavioural issues and building resilience and empathy, and my parenting style, which is based on those principles, has not so far produced a child riddled with anxiety or unable to cope with adversity.

How do you “empathetically” stop a child from running in a car park when you’ve told him not to and he’s pulled away, laughing hysterically?

Bearing in mind he’s five and struggles to follow instructions (as per the OP).

If this was me, I would explain to him that because he wasn’t safe mummy got hurt so now you can’t take him to the party but daddy will. I also wouldn’t be giving him a Freddo for a snack - if he is genuinely hungry then he either needs a healthy mid afternoon snack in the afternoon at school or a more filling snack straight out of the door before you attempt going near the main road.

Not nice that you fell over but that’s not your son’s fault. Your DH can take him to the party and you can do something for yourself for the afternoon.

I think you should stick to what you’ve told him - his behaviour was unacceptable, regardless of whether he is ND or not. Yes, you lost your temper, but if you go back on what you’ve told him now, all that will do is teach him ‘mummy tells me one thing but really she doesn’t mean it so it doesn’t matter if I do it again’.
He won’t be scarred for life by not going to the party - he will be sad for a while but soon get over it.

I’m really surprised at the replies and that everyone would just let this go. He is 5 not 2 so he will remember what happened yesterday. My friends daughter is similar in behaviour and age so just before Christmas she was playing up and therefore wasn’t allowed to go to the school disco, not only was she not allowed to go she had to walk and drop off her sister there!

sigh OK. The empathy isn't used in the moment to address the dangerous conduct. That's not what this style of parenting is about. I don't suggest that OP should have been lying on the floor begging her son to get back in the car as he pranced around the car park. You stop dangerous behaviour by getting physical control of your child (grabbing hands, picking up) and getting them to safety.

My child had a tendency to try to monkey about in car parks at that age because five year olds are impulsive and have limited if any danger awareness. So in OP's place I'd have been holding on to both his hand and a piece of his clothing that he couldn't easily slip out of as soon as we were within sight of the car park, because my child had once managed to slip her hand out of mine and I wasn't letting that happen again. Second, he would not previously have experienced me as amused to any extent by him running away and there would be a history of a clearly and very firmly held boundary, reiterated every time this happened, by both me and DH, about walking close to us and doing exactly as we say in a car park. Third, if despite these measures it had happened again, once I had got myself up I would have picked him up, he would be in the car and seatbelted and I would be reminding him again of those conversations, making him repeat the rule back to me, and pointing out to him that this time Mummy fell over and got hurt because he hadn't listened, and I knew that he hadn't intended that to happen but this was why I kept telling him that what he was doing was dangerous.

For my child, even at that age, the fact that I had got hurt would have been the consequence.

I'm not saying that other people can't do things differently, but that's how I dealt with it with mine.

You are absolutely doing the right thing. It will be hard for you and you will feel guilty but this will be a good lesson for him to know that there will be consequences. Too many parents don’t follow through with punishments. Well done & good luck

I really get what you're saying about there always being a curveball - I feel that way sometimes too with my son.

BUT I have found that it really helps to relinquish the idea that I can control everything and keep my son in an agreeable, upbeat, compliant mood. It's just not possible. He's going to have difficulties and ups and downs just like the rest if us, but a lot of it will be taken out in me, as his mum.

Let go of the idea that you can always engineer things to go smoothly. You can definitely work to set him up for success - like knowing that he'll be famished so you bring him a snack, so he'll be less likely to get into the hangry zone, that's great. Though I have to tell you that 8 out of 10 times my son would also declare that I brought him the wrong snack 😂.

There's only so much we can control. Personally I've found it much more productive to try and get better at staying calm myself rather than trying to find the best "consequence" for typically childlike behaviour.

And on a side note - I remember when I was about 9, I "talked back" to my dad and as a punishment he didn't let me go to my friend's party... Just made me really irate towards my father and want to talk back even more. In hindsight I realise it's probably because it was just unnecessarily harsh and completely illogical, and he wanted to hurt me like I'd apparently hurt him. Not a good road to go down.

It's perfectly possible for her to tell him that she's changed her mind and that she was very frustrated in the moment and came up with too harsh a consequence. It's ok to admit to our children that we are human and make mistakes too!

He’s 5 years old. Still in his ego centric phase where they can only consider themselves. In the kindest way it isn’t about you, you and your feelings don’t enter his brain, simply because he’s 5 years old and his brain doesn’t yet fully comprehend that.

go to the party

it wasn’t his fault you fell over. Not his fault you’re feeling humiliated. By all means have a chat with him about listening to you and safety but don’t punish him for how YOU are feeling. Only you are responsible for your feelings.

So, in this situation, the “empathy” part of your empathetic approach to parenting, is that the child would feel sorry for YOU, and that is the natural consequence?

ETA : would you expect that in from an overexcited 5 year old who’s “laughing hysterically”?

Sorry, what? What are you talking about? Try reading what I've actually said? Might the empathy come in when I tell him that I understand he didn't mean for me to be hurt, which reflects my understanding that he is five years old and not a thug or a monster?

@nolongersurprised And no, I wouldn't have that conversation with a child who was laughing hysterically, I would get us back in the car and then sit and wait in silence until it stopped unless there was some pressing reason why there was no time for that.

@nolongersurprised You know, you can go and look at the evidence. Ask ChatGPT whether there's research to support empathy and consistency in parenting over harsh consequences. Look at the links it offers. Ask it for evidence to support your view of parenting. Or go to the library. All of that might be more productive than sifting through my words one by one in the hope that you can divorce them from what they actually mean when put together.

Lol at ChatGPT 😀😀

Your posts gave me the impression that that would be a good starting point for you.

I don’t want to argue with you, you seem to be taking it very personally. I’m genuinely curious about how you would you “empathetically” manage this situation, and I’m still not unclear about how that looks, based on your answers.

It seem to boil down to : the child realising he has hurt his mother and feeling remorse (not a given, developmentally) and your recommendation that he be reassured by his mother that she knows it wasn’t intentional.

Groundbreaking, really.

Why the snacks? Why did you try and have a debate? What a waste of time?

If you're genuinely trying to engage with what I'm saying, you could try losing the sarcasm. Yes, I'm taking it personally. I'm a person. This is an encounter that you opened with me in an unnecessarily baity way. When I responded by explaining how I had managed this situation with my own child, who is also a real person, you tried to argue that I'd said I expected the empathy to come from her and that feels like a wilful misinterpretation. Obviously I take that personally if someone wilfully misinterprets a good faith response. I think it's obvious that I wasn't saying I expected an empathy-focused approach from a five year old.

At no point have I suggested that my way of dealing with this would be "groundbreaking", as you suggest. Why do you keep being so sarcastic? I didn't descend on this thread in a cloud of superiority thinking I had the right to lecture everyone else on my parenting. You asked me to explain what I'd do so I did. Of course it's not groundbreaking. This is how lots of people parent and have done for ages as you can see from the other responses on this thread from people who agree that not letting this small child go to a party is unlikely to have the desired effect on his future behaviour.

Remorse is your word, not mine. If what you mean is that not all five year olds will be at the same point of starting to develop theory of mind, I agree. All I can say is that at that age my kid would always stop in her tracks and be sad if she thought she'd hurt me. Maybe OP's isn't there yet or it takes him longer to regulate after something like this. You're very focused on where I've said something explicitly expressing empathy to my child (which I have, actually, as I've explained), but it's more about my understanding of where my child is at developmentally and emotionally informing how I manage the incident than it is me saying to my child "I have empathy for you".

Everyone saying "delayed punishments won't work" sound like my SIL who has naughty children. They're humans not goldfish.

I would follow it through. My children behave far better than their peers. I can only see it from my own experience

Why do people treat five year olds as if they are unable to make causal links over time? A developmentally average child should (and in my experience is fully able) to do this before three! ‘You didn’t listen in the supermarket today so you do not get dessert after dinner’ is not so conceptually difficult a small child is unable to grasp it. My daughter is just three and she will tell me at dinner time if ‘I wasn’t good at the swimming pool today so I can’t have my ice cream’ / and then she behaves better the next time and says ‘see mummy I’m being good so I get my ice cream later.’ Honestly she is not any more advanced than her peers. Stop treating your children as if they are incapable of basic comprehension.