To think a therapist with a personality disorder is concerning?

[TherapistKnot]

I won’t say how I know this therapist, but I will say I know them very well. I know this person has read Mumsnet in the past, so I do not want to out myself. This therapist charges a premium hourly rate, and specialises in working with vulnerable people (including children) which I think makes this even more concerning.

The therapist in question has a long history, going back to childhood, of severe mental illness. This includes multiple suicide attempts (some very recent) and several diagnosed mental illnesses, including a personality disorder. I won’t say which, again for fear of outing myself or this individual. They have also been investigated by social services and the police on numerous occasions, again spanning decades, due to the behaviour they have exhibited as a result of their poor mental health. In the past year, they were investigated by social services, who found that they are emotionally manipulative, abusive and dishonest. This report was then sent to the father’s of her children (she has multiple children with different fathers, I believe this is also part of her mental illness and self-destruction). As a result of this, one of the father’s took her to court and she lost custody of one of her children…she is allowed contact with them but the child has been put in the care of their father.

Throughout the years I have gently asked if they feel any of this impacts their role as a therapist. The person in question has said that they are very good at separating their personal and work life, and that they would never behave poorly towards a client. However, I fail to see how all of this cannot materially affect their work as it has such a profound impact on their daily life and those around them. I would be horrified if I was paying an exorbitant amount (or even seeing her for free) with all of this background knowledge.

I have researched it and it appears that therapists can operate unchecked, there does not appear to be any safeguards, effectively anyone can become a self-employed therapist. Yes it is up to clients to do their due diligence - for example I would request a DBS - but there is nobody overseeing therapists and therefore there would be no way for a client to have access to any of this information.

AIBU to think this is wrong and that anyone working with vulnerable people needs to be on some sort of register or have some sort of governing body?

I think you may have a rather unusual definition of “friend”!

You can check their registrations online if registered AND accredited with key organisations such as HCPC, BACP, BABCP etc. Important to consider accreditation not just registration, and that not all registers are equal in terms of how rigorous their expectations are. Within my own post grad training of 3 years (on top of an undergrad core profession of 3 years training) we had to have extensive supervision, send recordings of our sessions with clients (with consent of course), have our own personal therapy and complete a ton of self practice work!

But yes, many therapists can practice without registration, appropriate experience, supervision, or qualification - so you have to do due diligence yourself at the moment.

@TherapistKnot

If you are concerned about their professional practice you could contact their accrediting body if they have one? But not if this is just a hear say/he said she said situation. If they work with vulnerable groups such as children could also speak to the LADO team for advice.

Just be mindful of what is fact/speculation before you potentially upend a career.

A mental health diagnosis does not stop you from being a good therapist necessarily.

They basically don’t exist?
This is basically just spreading nonsense and untruths.
what is this based on? Do you think you know better than the entirety of the best minds within the psychiatric profession?
I think you’ll find PDs are still very much part of the DSM.
It’s true that the area of personality disorders is always being reevaluated, refined and evolving. But they still very much exist within the DSM.

Many personality disorders are enduring and unchanging.

1. It's quite extraordinary that you know this much information about this person. One has to assume that either a lot of it is hearsay or you're family.

2. People with mental health conditions can be therapists. They might even be particularly apt for certain clients if their condition is well controlled and the clients are struggling with the same MH condition. People who have lived experience with things like suicidal ideation be GREAT therapist for somebody who is experiencing concerning thoughts.

3. People can compartmentalise. ESPECIALLY, sometimes, people with mental health disorders.

4. I'm tangentially involved with students at a college that offers training for counselling skills. I think a lot of people who go into training to become a therapist need therapy themselves. IME many of them don't really recognise their own problems and don't get appropriate therapy to work through them.

5. The main concern I'd have would be about are they having regular and suitable supervision.

... it's really quite common for people with PDs to think the problem is everybody else and not themselves!

Oh I know I have serious problems. I also know that I don’t have a personality disorder, evidenced by the fact the psychiatrist has been unable to provide me with details of how I meet the criteria.
im also highly aware of how attitudes towards me changed once he gave the bullshit diagnosis.
I was in A and E last night. Sent by my GP after consultation with my husband. Hallucinating. Hearing voices telling me to kill people and myself. Ambulance staff were lovely. Dr in A and E amazing.
MH team came in, spoke to me for 15 mins and sent me home.
I can’t live with these strange experiences I have when I’m not on medication. My family know this will end my life.

There are a few professional governing bodies for psychotherapist and counsellors. UKCP has the highest standard of training to be a member, BACP is the biggest and best known.
Yes, their investigatory powers are limited but they do respond to complaints from clients and members can be struck off.
As there is currently no obligation to register (something which many are pushing for change on) all ethical conscientious therapists are voluntarily members of a governing body. These organisations accredit training courses and ensure that members are doing supervision and cpd continuously.

So, the onus is on clients to properly research who they choose to see and pick someone who is a member of a governing body.

https://www.psychotherapy.org.uk/about-ukcp/our-register/

I'm really sorry that you're struggling.

There is so much that we still don't have a clue about when it comes to mental illness.

Just in case it wasn't clear, I wasn't in any way commenting on yours or anybody else's specific situation. xx

I wouldn't go to a dentist with bad teeth and if I found out my cleaner had a dirty home, I wouldn't be impressed as I want to hire someone who is good at cleaning!

Therapists are not regulated around their mental health, but that's the case with most professionals, surely? I think entrusting someone with your personal information is always risky. I don't know if therapists are worse than other professions, but they are not better mental health wise usually. I do think sometimes people can be supportive and wise to others whilst personally living a bit of a shit show, I've seen it myself.

In my 20s I had a very wise older friend who said, about a social worker judgemental fucking bitch who we both knew, that many of them are on both sides of the fence. As in, she was nuts and was trying to solve her own issues by acting like a saviour to others. Years later I saw the same with a conspiracy theory nutter and she was a fucking social worker too. Lied and fudged her MA, but still qualified. She was proud of her deception. Fuck you, S, you had your youngest asking if the sky is real and you believe viruses don't exist. Mum of the year. NOT. I fucking hate conspiraloon nutters. That's child abuse.

TherapistKnot, I completely agree with you. I think the posters defending the situation are being naive. Yes, of course therapists are brought into the job by their own experiences, and this gives them understanding. But surely there are limits? i would be horrified to think someone with the past you describe should be in that intimate situation with clients and charging a fortune...
Does she have credible qualifications?

Many therapists are regulated by bodies such as UKCP and BACP who insist on a high level of supervision and ongoing training.
Edit: I did not mean to post this gif and can't see how to delete it!

Credentials should be available -e.g BACP registration is what I ask for, and proof of insurance.

I used to work in a well-known counselling organisation. I can honestly say that the majority of the counsellors were unstable in some way. In fact it was like trying to manage a group of unregulated toddlers who tantrummed if told ‘no’. It’s easier to dabble in other people’s emotional problems than to admit that you yourself need some sort of help.

Well, then you perhaps would not get a job from someone for whom your records matter. As I’d assume you’re trying to hide something.

In the past year, they were investigated by social services, who found that they are emotionally manipulative, abusive and dishonest.
Yeah, not who you'd want giving therapy to children and vulnerable people. It's probably easier for her to get away with it with them. Best to let the police know an abuser is alone with kids and vulnerable people

If you want to know if a therapist is not only a member of a decent professional body but also accredited then it’s worth looking at the Professional Standards Authority where they have the registers of the main organisations and you will be able to check if they’re accredited. The main ones are BACP and UKCP for counsellors and therapists and BABCP for cognitive therapists. I can’t speak for all professional bodies but mine requires the following:
post grad specific qualification
Core relevant profession or KSA submission (takes about a year to complete).
placement with close supervision of 1+ years in NHS
submissions for accreditation
enhanced DBS, safeguarding training, GDPR and privacy training, Risk training.

i’m now in private practice and self employed. My professional body requires me to hold certain insurance and an enhanced DBS (organisations like Mayflower help private therapists to obtain these). I am required to reaccredit every 12 months and have to be able to demonstrate regular clinical supervision with a supervisor who is in practice and has held a teaching/academic position and is a qualified supervisor. I have to make my training records available. I have to register a clinical will containing a running record of my cases so if I die or am incapacitated my current clients’ care can be picked up. I have to be registered with the ICO. I can have my practice audited by my professional body at any time. I have to have a compliant contract which sets out my fees, terms, policies, record keeping, confidentiality, risk management approach etc and must make clear what the procedure is if someone wants to complain about me. I have to demonstrate safeguarding, GDPR and risk training that is up to date and inline with current NHS guidelines. I also have other requirements from the insurance companies such as BUPA (and I have to be accredited to work with insurance companies).

Am I a perfect therapist? no. Not even close. I make mistakes. I’m not always the right therapist. I always refer on when a client is beyond my skills and competencies. Has my mental health always been top notch? No. I’ve had PND and depression in the past. And of course no training is watertight, bad apples get through, though I do think the more hoops you have to jump through to be an accredited practitioner the more likely it is that the people attracted to the idea of being a therapist for the wrong reasons probably will fall by the wayside. I would argue that there are therapists and there are therapists, some do a weekend or short course as a counsellor or in CBT or some kind of Woo and think that’s enough. It is terrible that it’s so easy to do and impossible to tell who is who if you don’t know where to look. The slick website and glowing testimonials look good but are often a massive red flag. I feel sorry for anyone trying to work out who to trust. It’s also frustrating that there are so many threads knocking therapists if you’re a therapist trying to do everything you can to be ethical. There are plenty of accredited people on those registers who would be very happy to see dangerous/unsound/unethical people stopped. But it’s easier to stop people who are legitimate - does she have qualifications and accreditation @TherapistKnot?

Sounds like a big “none of your business”. As for your “concern” about it not being a regulated profession so the BACP can’t access social services records and medical records, I am a regulated professional (solicitor) and my regulatory body cannot access any social service records, medical records, or indeed any records. If I had a criminal conviction or was being investigated for a criminal offence that would be on me to self-report (with serious consequences for not doing so). When you qualify in to the profession, you have to declare any criminal convictions at that stage. Whatever happens afterwards is for you to self-report.

We don’t live in an Orwellian state where regulators have unfettered access to information relating to people’s personal lives. Get your nose out of hers!

I have a mental health illness and trained as a mental health nurse. It made me a much better nurse as I understood suicide etc.

If you think that person could be a danger to people then it's not o.k.

Tbf the issues usually do stem from others. They stem from trauma, abuse and powerlessness. They stem from a person's experience of the world and relationships.

That’s… something. I really don’t think that’s a reasonable approach to somebody who is dealing with vulnerable patients. For what it’s worth, it sounds like you’re the one projecting rather than the OP here.

This isn’t a hairdresser where you might not like your haircut. People are going to her for help with emotional and mental health issues, they may not be in a position to realise that damage is occurring to them.

Fortunately I'm able to get a job with credible employers, not individuals on Mumsnet who don't understand that 'nothing to hide' doesn't mean giving up your rights.