To think a therapist with a personality disorder is concerning?

[TherapistKnot]

I won’t say how I know this therapist, but I will say I know them very well. I know this person has read Mumsnet in the past, so I do not want to out myself. This therapist charges a premium hourly rate, and specialises in working with vulnerable people (including children) which I think makes this even more concerning.

The therapist in question has a long history, going back to childhood, of severe mental illness. This includes multiple suicide attempts (some very recent) and several diagnosed mental illnesses, including a personality disorder. I won’t say which, again for fear of outing myself or this individual. They have also been investigated by social services and the police on numerous occasions, again spanning decades, due to the behaviour they have exhibited as a result of their poor mental health. In the past year, they were investigated by social services, who found that they are emotionally manipulative, abusive and dishonest. This report was then sent to the father’s of her children (she has multiple children with different fathers, I believe this is also part of her mental illness and self-destruction). As a result of this, one of the father’s took her to court and she lost custody of one of her children…she is allowed contact with them but the child has been put in the care of their father.

Throughout the years I have gently asked if they feel any of this impacts their role as a therapist. The person in question has said that they are very good at separating their personal and work life, and that they would never behave poorly towards a client. However, I fail to see how all of this cannot materially affect their work as it has such a profound impact on their daily life and those around them. I would be horrified if I was paying an exorbitant amount (or even seeing her for free) with all of this background knowledge.

I have researched it and it appears that therapists can operate unchecked, there does not appear to be any safeguards, effectively anyone can become a self-employed therapist. Yes it is up to clients to do their due diligence - for example I would request a DBS - but there is nobody overseeing therapists and therefore there would be no way for a client to have access to any of this information.

AIBU to think this is wrong and that anyone working with vulnerable people needs to be on some sort of register or have some sort of governing body?

You can apply for an enhanced DBS yourself via an umbrella organisation.

Yes you can.

@ilovesooty does that include enhanced now? I know it was being considered, it was only basic which doesn't mean much when working with vulnerable groups (we had this issue when recruiting people who could cover a children's hobby class!)

I know of one woman who claims to be a therapist and counsellor, incredibly intelligent and charismatic but an absolute narcissist bordering on being a sociopath. I cringe and shudder whenever I imagine her interacting with patients, it’s unfathomable that anyone would willingly choose to see her more than once.

Yes, it does include enhanced.

Every therapist I know has their own issues.

This is absolute rubbish. As someone who has worked in secure mental health services and prisons, personality disorders absolutely do exist, and have clear diagnostic criteria. If you have worked with someone with PD, you’d know.

Unfortunately until she does something very unprofessional or gains a criminal record. She is free to practice.

I do believe people with lived experienced can bring a wealth of knowledge and genuine empathy to thr profession. However, some should stay clear of working in a caring profession if they cannot cope.

Yes and IF the one child were removed for abuse as you’ve alleged, then they would have removed ALL the children, ergo there was no removal due to abuse. HTH

I also know a therapist whose had 2 of her younger children removed from her care and her older children are NC with her.

Another therapist who I used to work with (in a totally different industry, prior to her becoming a therapist) was the most horrendous bully. Now, amongst other things, she helps people with work related issues. I nearly spat my coffee out when I read that. She's also been accused of racism.

I think they can strike someone off but I can’t imagine it is easy to prove the sort of allegations you are making. I don’t know what other avenue you could take but expect someone here would be able to tell you.

This is absolutely not true. An enhanced DBS does not show any record of anything the subject has been a victim of.

I have a clean enhanced DBS and have also been a victim of more than one reported crime. My experience as a victim does not show on my DBS, it’s entirely irrelevant and consenting to a DBS check does not give consent to this information being revealed.

I've also worked with many people with various different PD, and quite a few psychiatrists and clin psychs who also think the PD diagnoses are problematic tbf. I mean, being gay used to be in the DSM, and that had a list of diagnostic criteria too.
That's not to say the people who are diagnosed with them don't have difficulties, but they can be a bit of an umbrella/dumping ground (EUPD in particular)

It is true, and the fact that yours doesn't, doesn't prove my statement is wrong. I supported a friend and colleague who ended up in a serious DV relationship whilst working in a safeguarding role. It included the ex making counter allegations, along with stalking and harassment. She didn't show me the DBS but she did tell me some of it was on her doc, presumably because there was the potential for impact to those she worked with if an employer wasn't aware and properly protecting her.
(Fortunately our employer has very good at how they supported her through it, he hung around our offices more than once)

Edit: to add it's not common, in case anyone reading this is worried - it is situation specific/discretionary according to risk as to whether it's included.

They can be problematic diagnoses and often overlap with other mental health issues, but if you’ve known or worked with people with PD, it’s usually blindingly obvious. Traits of different types of PD are a different matter but the pervasive nature of PD is the key thing.

I appreciate we're going off on a bit of a tangent to the OP here, but I respect your opinion though have to disagree a little. I've worked with many women in their 40s upwards where diagnoses of EUPD have been questioned - either as misdiagnosis (eg replaced with Autism and or CPTSD) or where the supposed pervasive traits haven't been pervasive over the lifetime. Similar experience supporting an older women with a schizoid PD diagnosis where I don't think the same would have been diagnosed today.
The difficulty I think of working in a MH system is only seeing those people who are struggling the most, and are 'visible'. For example, I worked with a few in a forensic setting with anti social PD and I would have absolutely agreed with you, the individuals I knew were unlikely to ever be rehabilitated. But then, there are thought to be a relatively high % of people who would meet criteria for ASPD in certain sectors of business, who are 'high functioning' and successful.

The counter allegations may well have shown, as she’d been reported to the police. Her allegations against him would not.

Can you understand the difference?

I think because they've been found to be emotionally manipulative, abusive and dishonest then they shouldn't be a therapist as they aren't very good qualities to have in a therapist or indeed anyone working with vulnerable people especially children.

@freudenschaude I'm not sure why you think you'd know more about my friends situation than I would. Fwiw he didn't report her to the police, he reported her to social services and LADO. Her being a victim of DV was on the DBS, the stalking was a relevant risk because he stalked her at her workplace, was believed to have tracked her car and had made threats to her - her job included going to visit children at their homes.

I'm not sure why you're so keen to convince me I'm wrong when a quick google could have prevented you from this embarrassment. As I said it isn't common that being a victim of crime will be on an enhanced DBS, but it is certainly possible that it can be.

You’ve stated you’ve not seen her certificate and you ‘assume’ you know the reason information you’ve seen wasn’t on there.

I have also been a victim of stalking and I can assure you that that information was not disclosed via the DBS check that my employer undertook on me.

Personality disorders are absolute bullshit anyway. I’m certain I’m the future they’ll be debunked and many people will sue for the trauma caused by the diagnosis.
And I say that as somebody diagnosed. It’s quite clear they just plucked a diagnosis out of thin air.

All the therapists I know are pretty nuts.
Some of them are bipolar.
I think if you have experienced therapy and it’s had a positive impact on your life, that can lead to you feeling that you’d be a good therapist. Been there, worn the t-shirt.
All the social workers I know are pretty bonkers too.

Personality disorders are often considered ego-syntonic, meaning the person may not realize their thoughts or behaviors are problematic, viewing the issues as stemming from others instead.

@freudenschaude I mentioned that I hadn't seen the certificate myself, because of the context of the OP talking about asking to view certificates. But why would my good friend lie to me about what went on hers, when I supported her? And why would the fact that certain information wasn't included on yours, mean anything about what my friend experienced, when the decision on what to include or not include, is discretionary and situation specific? Sorry but your post has really confused me, I'm not sure why you believe that because something was the case for you that everyone else would have a universal experience? I've never said it was automatic inclusion, in fact I've said twice it's not common, and given context as to why my friends situation was perhaps unusual for it to happen.

That’s actually just an excuse used when people challenge their diagnosis. Trust me, it’s total bullshit.