To think a therapist with a personality disorder is concerning?

[TherapistKnot]

I won’t say how I know this therapist, but I will say I know them very well. I know this person has read Mumsnet in the past, so I do not want to out myself. This therapist charges a premium hourly rate, and specialises in working with vulnerable people (including children) which I think makes this even more concerning.

The therapist in question has a long history, going back to childhood, of severe mental illness. This includes multiple suicide attempts (some very recent) and several diagnosed mental illnesses, including a personality disorder. I won’t say which, again for fear of outing myself or this individual. They have also been investigated by social services and the police on numerous occasions, again spanning decades, due to the behaviour they have exhibited as a result of their poor mental health. In the past year, they were investigated by social services, who found that they are emotionally manipulative, abusive and dishonest. This report was then sent to the father’s of her children (she has multiple children with different fathers, I believe this is also part of her mental illness and self-destruction). As a result of this, one of the father’s took her to court and she lost custody of one of her children…she is allowed contact with them but the child has been put in the care of their father.

Throughout the years I have gently asked if they feel any of this impacts their role as a therapist. The person in question has said that they are very good at separating their personal and work life, and that they would never behave poorly towards a client. However, I fail to see how all of this cannot materially affect their work as it has such a profound impact on their daily life and those around them. I would be horrified if I was paying an exorbitant amount (or even seeing her for free) with all of this background knowledge.

I have researched it and it appears that therapists can operate unchecked, there does not appear to be any safeguards, effectively anyone can become a self-employed therapist. Yes it is up to clients to do their due diligence - for example I would request a DBS - but there is nobody overseeing therapists and therefore there would be no way for a client to have access to any of this information.

AIBU to think this is wrong and that anyone working with vulnerable people needs to be on some sort of register or have some sort of governing body?

I’m not saying I would but I’m just saying technically speaking much like criminals it depends on what they did.

Even people with criminal records can work in jobs you wouldn’t think because their crime wouldn’t affect or be able to happen to the service user.

A good example would be hackers being hired by governments because of their skills or burglars that have started their own security companies because they know the weak spots. I know a company that’s in IT that hired someone with a hacking conviction they hired him because of it.

In your example she lost or gave up custody of one of her children but has kept the rest. Whatever she did or didn’t do the law and her other children’s fathers didn’t feel or see fit to remove all the children.

Your personal connection to her whatever that is seems to be feeding the issue more I think.

One of my friends is a therapist and she’s a bloody vile person. Known her years, and she’s done some awful things. Not illegal just not very moral

If she is registered with BACP you could make enquiries with them

I highly doubt any therapist would be willing to give you a DBS check of themselves OP… You’d also be shocked by how many healthcare professionals do not have a clean record.

My old therapist was a former drug and alcohol addict. It informed her practice and her record was far from squeaky because of it.

Personality disorders as a concept are known to be problematic, they're essentially a grouping of personality traits, usually shaped by childhood experience, that are felt to cause issues. They are not necessarily fixed/permanent and how they affect someone can change over time depending on their maturity and life circumstances. So I wouldn't consider it a barrier to being a therapist.

Any therapist employed by an organisation, such as NHS or CAMHS, would have to go through the required checks of their organisation. It is problematic that it isn't a protected title and anyone can set themselves up independently - however there are bodies that therapists can voluntarily register with, BACP being the main one for those involved in traditional mental health/counselling work, and it's imperative that anyone seeking a therapist does those checks. A client has no right to request a DBS though, and DBSs are checks requested by employers so if someone is fully self employed they have no route to have a DBS anyway!

If any person who was working with my child refused to show me a DBS, they wouldn’t be working with my child.

I would also be very careful of assuming that a father gaining residence of a child means that the mother is abusive. Both parents have equal right to be the resident parent, the child can't be in two places at once, if a non resident parent seeks care that is their right to do so and the child will end up with one of them usually (unless 50 50 but whilst it's the starting point it's not that's not that common in practice just due to the practicalities of those arrangements)

It's preferable that they are registered with a regulatory body like BACP or NCPS, but to be in private practice , you don't technically have to. But I think if I was looking for a therapist, I would definitely be wanting one that was registered with a regulatory body.

@TherapistKnot a self employed therapist won't have a DBS. They are checks done by an employer. The only person who has the right to see the DBS is the employer.

A judge isn’t going to make an order that a child is in the sole custody of one parent and only has minimal contact with the other if there aren’t serious issues. Judges usually push for equal custody or at least some sort of shared custody.

Unfortunately there are a lot of predatory odd people in all "respectable" professions and walks of life.

Mental health is just one of them.

Mental health - one guy I dated briefly is now an NHS consultant. Sent aggressive texts saying he'd been spying on me and I was clearly lying after I didn't agree to a date as was ill.

He also had very odd, grandiose, self centred conversational habits. I can't imagine him actually being helpful to talk to at all.

Former mental health nurse - lot of diagnosed issues and been sectioned multiple times.

Therapist ex-friend - absolutely vile person. Tbf she did get sacked from her job for her aggressive behaviour towards her colleagues.

Lots of people in the "caring" professions are completely vile.

The best people can do is have good intuition and boundaries and do due diligence and "keep yourself to yourself" if you're feeling vulnerable.

There is a dominant narrative that if you're struggling and vulnerable you should seek therapy or help or join groups ASAP.

I personally think for some people having a good "mental self-care" toolkit may be better than getting into the system.

It isn’t true that only employers can request DBS. I’ve hired many nanny’s, cleaners, tutors etc over the years and all have been able to produce a DBS.

How do these organisations regulate their members though? I’m assuming they can’t access medical records, court records, social services records so how would they even monitor these people, other than DBS which likely isn’t sufficient anyway even if it’s done.

Came to say this first part. They basically don’t exist - they are a ‘complicated life, can’t really explain it’ dumping ground when support is unavailable. Usually lead to the person being drugged into submission.

I mean you can ask, it's not like anyone is going to prosecute you for it, but they've no requirement to show one to you - or to have one, if they're fully self employed.

If for example you employ a tutor through an agency, the agency only have to confirm that they have done the relevant checks.
If you employ a tutor on a private basis you don't have any right to see a DBS, if they have one. If they have shown one to you I can only assume that they've got it through other employment and they're doing what they can you to get work. I wouldn't ever show mine to a private individual on principle though, it's not a precedent that should be set, they're highly private documents.

If you are working with vulnerable clients charging a lot of money for services, why wouldn’t you be happy to show it? It doesn’t show any personal details and if clear it just says ‘no records’. There’s zero reason not to show someone one, unless you do have some sort of criminal history.

Curious OP as to what the relationship is between you and this person that you are so sure you know they pose a risk to their old child and to others? Why haven't you reported them to social services if you're so sure? It doesn't sound at all like you have an axe to grind.

If they are registered with the health professionals council and you have evidence they should not be, you can complain

https://www.hcpc-uk.org/

Then you clearly don't know what can be included on an enhanced DBS. It can include details of being a victim, not 'just' a criminal. And because it's a PRIVATE document. Do you think I should show you my medical record on demand because they're innocuous?

You cannot get an enhanced DBS when you are self-employed so that is a moot point.

@TherapistKnot I think they can only ask for medical records etc if the counsellor disclosed that they have mental health issues. But if she isn't registered with them then obviously she won't need to disclose anything to them.

On the other hand, if even one child were in danger such that social services took them away, they would have taken ALL her children. The fact she is resident parent for most of her children, means the one child ended up with the dad for another reason. Perhaps the child expressed a wish to live with their dad?

The bar for social services removal is extremely high, as you’re probably aware,
many children live in abusive households and nothing is done. I’m almost positive if all the other fathers applied for custody (and weren’t completely unsuitable or unstable themselves) they’d likely win custody based on the findings against her.

You're making even less sense now... None of the things you've mentioned as your concerns for working with children in your OP would have any bearing on a 'standard' DBS, so why did you even reference them as something that your therapist 'friend' should have and be providing?

You can easily check in the person you are concerned about is registered with BACP or any other voluntary body and each will have their own policy about if/how they deal with concerns about anyone they have registered. BACP are the biggest and most stringent I think, some others (the more 'woo' therapy types) less so.

Custody is not the same as social services removal. What you've said wasn't removal. It was dad exercising his parental right, and dad initiating court, not social services.

Id be careful OP it seems like you know a little but you're adding 2+2 and getting 500.