Old Fashioned Table Manners

[Unorganisedchaos2]

Probably more "am I being an old fashioned old grump ...."

Me, DD7 and DH live together, only in the last two years had space for a dining room table. We don't eat out much as a family but do on holidays / weekends away. DD's table manners weren't great for a while but I've been really trying to get them in check, she now eats pretty well when we go out, will order her own food and sit at the table without relying on a tablet too much 😕

We are all home for dinner time and I would like to have the same rules and have been asking DD to help set the table, sit nicely through dinner, have a chat about the day and ask before she can leave the table. A few younger family members have commented that is really old fashioned now, especially asking to leave the table?

Also DH, who seems to take no pleasure in siting together for a meal just wants to eat his food quickly, go out for a cigarette then get on with his evening.

Is it unreasonable to ask everyone to sit together for 20 minutes to eat and have a chat and use some manners, or am I out of touch?

Thank you.

To be honest it often involves sweeping clear some piles of junk that Im sure breed overnight and plonking down a few bowls of sausage's, ready made mash and frozen veg - the Waltons we are not - but its progress not perfection. 😅

DD really enjoys the routine and tha chats too, I'm sure it wont be many years before she starts grumbling about it and I'd like the habit to formed at least.

Sitting without distractions at a dining table, having decent table manners and being able to engage in conversation with others are important life skills. There are lots of studies that suggest regularly eating together as a family is a good indicator of positive outcomes for children. I don’t understand why any of these things could be construed as ‘old-fashioned’ or unnecessary.

It doesn’t mean you have to act like you’re dining at the Savoy every night, but to set a table and sit together for a chat at least a few nights a week is well worth the effort. Sounds like you’ve got an uphill battle on your hands if your DH doesn’t enjoy it and won’t support you, but YDNBU to try.

With my kids and grandchildren I always insisted on good table manners. My house, my rules. If I took the GCs out, as young children, then I was paying, so they had to behave properly.

Good manners cost nothing, and go a long way in life.

I'm a stickler for table manners. We've always eaten as a family at the dining table. My two young children know they have to ask 'please may I leave the table' and regularly say 'thank you for a lovely dinner'.
It's something I was brought up to do and I don't think manners cost anything

However we have a huge issue with my older child eating with their mouth open. 90% of my child's friends do this!! So we're having to consistently tell said child to close mouth whilst eating. It's awful and I can't quite understand how all sorts of manners have just fallen by the wayside

Im quite old school though depsite only being 40. Pronouncing words properly and not dropping 't's is a hill I will absolutely die on 🤣

So no OP, you're not unreasonable

You're right.

But if your DH doesnt care about smoking when he has daughter, knowing the health risks of passive smoking and the poor example it sets, then why would he care about table manners?

It’s an important anchor in the day. Eye contact, face to face family time, safe place to download, check in for the day.

It’s your DH who needs to value family meal time. That’s who needs to be persuaded that his presence and mood in these moments are critical for his daughters emotional development.

I also agree with PP that pre and post meal routines are important also to demonstrate collaboration / partnership / get stuck in with communal effort - even if is quicker and easier to do it yourself.

No phones at the table at home or in a restaurant is a big red line for me.

I have also introduced one that I wasn't brought up with - demonstrated by one of my DCs friends - which was no one was to start to eat until the cook took their place (that included loading plate from communal dishes) …. very obvious and in a restaurant no one would start before everyone was served …. but in my home my mother didn’t sit down to eat with us at the same time - she just dished up for us 6 - then probably got ahead with washing up whilst we squabbled and then she sat down on her own for some peace and quiet to eat when we had departed.

Have a word with your DH. These moments are not about food or cutlery. They are about intentional moments of communing, comfort, respect in the supportive family unit away from the outside world.

Good table manners are very important to me and DH. No phones at the table; if you're so desperate to use your phone during dinner then go into another room. Sit up straight, don't hunch over your plate like a dog. Use cutlery and use it properly.

We don't have children but when staying with friends, we've seen some nasty sights. One of the worst was when I sat next to a teenager when we had meatballs in tomato sauce. This teen spiked the meatballs and then loudly licked the sauce off which was disgusting to see and hear. At least he did until I asked him not to as it was making me nauseous. The lad was 17 at the time so old enough to know better, but the family usually ate in front of the tv rather than at the table, so their children had learned no manners.

As a small child I was obsessed with the idea of being Queen and my parents taught me manners by saying 'Now the Queen wouldn't do that, would she?' and I had no choice but to agree.

I will be honest that it took years to instil ‘table manners’ in my lot.

Maybe on reflection it was because it was chaos having 3 under 3 - 2 boys with ADHD and a DD with sensory issues - so 2 feeling unable to sit still and focus slowly / gently on the conversation and food - whilst the other one was agitated and hated the eye contact - we got there in the end with some adaptations.

Neither unreasonable or old-fashioned. These are just good basic expectations. We have the same rules.

It's not "old-fashioned", OP, it's just normal, civilised behaviour. If a child can't learn proper table manners (without screens), then how on earth are they going to get on in life?
That includes saying "Thank you for dinner. Please may I leave the table?".
It's really not difficult - we all learnt how to behave at the table.
Your friends' kids may be feral, but there's no reason for you to descend to their level.

Basic table manners shouldn't be considered old-fashioned.

Also, as children get older the introduction of basic table etiquette so that they can hold their own in social settings when they're adults is a good idea.

This. I always had set dinner times for my 4 always sitting at the table. I still do and they are older now. I could take them anywhere even when very young. No phones or tablets needed.

i worked at a business counsultancy. And once a month we had a proper sit-down lunch in the biggest meeting room, with waiters, because we had so many of our newer people who pissed off clients during business lunches/dinners, by not being able to behave properly at a dinner table.

Not UK, but being British it was deemed that i would probably automatically know about this stuff, so i had to join for the first few months. And some of them were awful: chewing with their mouths open, talking with their mouths full, not being able to use cutlery, using their hands to eat their food, using their hands to take items from communal dishes... it was a real eye opener.

This.
The problem is your DH. He values his own time (and fags) more than he values time with your DD having a chat. That is sad, and he should make more of an effort. The art of conversation is important.

I taught for many years. Shocking that so many kids didn’t know what setting the table meant.
If ‘Please May I leave the table?’ seems old fashioned now maybe you can change it to ‘ Mum, I’ve finished, can I go and play now?’ - or something similar.
Kids really need these social skills.

I also instilled in mine the THANKYOUs for lifts from other parents. The amount of DC that would just climb out and slam the door - I don’t think mine would have thought about it if I hadn’t flagged it as they are just preoccupied with getting home / into football whatever.

Also my now adult children are exceptionally polite to people in retail and hospitality and it stands out even to me. They all have also had these jobs and they said that having someone rude or impolite to you can really impact your whole day - so they go out of their way to show some kindness and respect.

So disrespectful for the cook. I wouldn't have this.

It’s not ok d fashioned. It’s civilised. We do one thing I’m thankful for every day around the table. Sounds wank but it’s a nice 5 mins of connection.

Manners never go out of date

I insisted on it for most meals when ours were younger. Most people I know do too.

For context I'm an older person and unapologetically old fashioned.

We've always sat down to our evening meal. Even if DH had to work, or DCs had activities those at home sat down at a properly laid table to eat, stayed at the table until everyone had finished & helped to clear up, wash up etc. If someone for various reasons wasn't able to join the family meal, the table would be laid for them & either me or DH (or both of us) would sit with that person so that they weren't eating alone and that they had the opportunity to talk about their day.

Phones weren't an issue when our children were growing up (our youngest is the wrong side of 35), but I notice that our children tend to follow our example of family meal-time insisting that phones are not brought to the table (that includes the adults) & they value it as a time for everyone to catch up & spend time together. I've also noticed that our DCs are rather strict on table manners reminding DGC not to put their fork in their right hand, not to eat with mouths open, not to talk with full mouths....that kind of thing.

Now it's just DH & me we've started having a formal dinner every Friday night when I finish work for the week. Having down-sized from a 4 bed house to a 2 bed bungalow a few years ago, we realised that we have so much nice china & glassware that rarely gets used & agonised about getting rid of it. This, we decided, wasn't an option as so much of it was wedding presents or inherited from much-loved parents & held many happy memories of Christmases & other celebrations. So we lay the table with a cloth, best china, cutlery & glassware & usually candles, we also change our clothes (sometimes DH will even put on his DJ) for dinner cooked by my (retired chef DH) accompanied by suitable music curtesy of Alexa.

@Ilovepastafortea That’s so lovely ❤️

This situation is also setting your DD up for a partner who treats her so shabbily. That her company is not a priority and his addictions take preference. This is her normal now from supposedly the person who cherishes her the most in the world - so why would she expect more.

Your DH needs a kick up the arse and some psychology education to understand how his attitude and intentional presence for these 20 mins a day are critical for establishing her self esteem and secure sense of self.

Also my now adult children are exceptionally polite to people in retail and hospitality and it stands out even to me. They all have also had these jobs and they said that having someone rude or impolite to you can really impact your whole day - so they go out of their way to show some kindness and respect.

When we took our DGDs out for breakfast recently a waitress approached our table to say how polite & well-behaved they were as they thanked the staff & had politely asked where to loo was & they had noticed that they held a door open to let someone with a buggy in. We were so proud of them & couldn't wait to tell their parents what a good job they were doing with bringing them up.

Not in the least unreasonable to insist on sitting at the table etc, but I personally find the ‘May I get down?’ thing infantilising and irritating.