to be fed up with older relatives’ sexist views and not know how to deal with them?

[HazelMember]

I’ve got a few older relatives who regularly come out with very old fashioned, sexist opinions and I’m finding it increasingly hard to deal with.

One will complain that women do not teach their children how to cook anymore, as if feeding children and basic life skills are solely women’s responsibility. Another genuinely believes women cannot do the same jobs as men and that male electricians, painters and decorators are automatically better than women doing the same work. Someone else thinks wives should cook for their husbands even when both partners work full time.

There is also a female relative who has said that it was acceptable for a husband in the family to hit his wife because she refused to look after his mother. That comment has stayed with me and honestly shocked me.

I do challenge these views when they come up. I point out that men also parent, that women do these jobs perfectly well, and that working women do not owe anyone domestic labour or care work. But when I speak up I tend to get shouted down, talked over, or told I am too sensitive or looking for an argument, while the sexist comments themselves are treated as perfectly reasonable.

s. Should I keep challenging it even when I am dismissed, start setting firmer boundaries such as refusing to engage when it comes up or just disengage and change the subject to preserve my sanity?

I have found the best way to deal with this kind of assholery from any dick head regardless of age is to -

Set boundaries and stick to them.
Develop a pronounced "Fuck You" face that you apply wherever and whenever appropriate.
Then walk away every single time.
Say nothing. It doesn't deserve honouring with your time and effort and will only be seen as 'getting arise out of the sensitive one'.
Lead your whole life as you see fit.
Take no shit from men in any shape or form.
Be a living example of what you believe to be right. Especially to younger people.

I say this as a woman in my sixties who was raised in a sexist environment. I went on to thrive in a male dominated trade and built my own business employing other tradeswomen. Our USP was that people wanted to employ us because we were reliable, better at our job than many men and would not letch, spit, perve or fart louder than a Makita radio whilst scratching our balls.

Most important. Whoever the female relative is who said it was acceptable for a husband to hit his wife. She needs dropping. No good can come from that bitch.

Would you lose any second discussing something with a wall of bricks ? I guess you would not. Just ignore and move on. They are going to die soon anyway so who gives a fuck?

If the suggestion of responding in a really patronising way doesn’t work I’d try saying something like “Having a vagina doesn’t get in the way of fixing the lights” or “How does having a penis prevent a chap cooking a spag bol?” It’d make me feel better and it might make them squirm a bit at the mention of body parts.

Could be another 30 years which is a long time.

Why do people keep saying they will be dead soon? If they were 92, yes probably. But 60s?

I have been told by DM multiple times that I am “so lucky” that DH “helps me” (with his dc) as he has such a stressful job. I remind her every time that I am the higher earner and he created these children.

Well to each their own I guess with the number of people saying ‘don’t engage’. Personally I’m not built like that. If said in front of me (and some of my in laws did a bit of this early on - I remember a humdinger with BIL) I’d challenge stuff like that. If THEY want to drop it I would politely agree to but as long as they carry on so will I. At the end of the day they are wrong so with the right arguments this is easy to demonstrate so they start to look pretty foolish. They might not agree but would hold their tongue on stuff like this in front of me now.

I do take issue with the idea that domestic violence was considered acceptable ever.

You need to watch the classic Carry On movies the why you should not beat your wife was a theme in most if not all.

And the when did you stop beating your wife question did not appear from a cultural void

They should be challenged each and every time. They are spouting shit and the one about hitting women, you should point out that that’s actually a criminal offence.

They’re 60. Their age does not make them vulnerable. And they’re old enough to know better. My late dad who was 90 never had those views - he was a wonderful advocate for equal parenting and domestic labour. So this isn’t purely about age. It’s about ignorance and prejudice.

I'm in my 60s and I would have thought these views sexist and old-fashioned if my parents had come out with them. I honestly don't think that age can be a major factor in your elderly relatives' sexism. There must be something else at play.
My youth was the period in which many of the legal rights that women now have were campaigned for and established (though much remains to be done of course). It was when domestic abuse shelters and rape crisis centres were being established. It was when we had to fight for police to stop treating domestic violence as a 'private matter' etc etc

"I say this as a woman in my sixties who was raised in a sexist environment. I went on to thrive in a male dominated trade and built my own business employing other tradeswomen. Our USP was that people wanted to employ us because we were reliable, better at our job than many men and would not letch, spit, perve or fart louder than a Makita radio whilst scratching our balls."

Love this. My H and I prefer going with women-run businesses for exactly these reasons, and because we know they had to work harder and be better to get to their position.

It’s not their age. They were in their 30s in the early 1990s, it definitely wasn’t acceptable then.

I was a child in the 80s and 90s, and very clearly remember people of my parents’ generation pushing back strongly against stuff like this - it was the generation above theirs who were brought up with those views. My DM is in her late 70s, FIL in his 80s, so the generation above would be aged 100-120. Nobody alive today became an adult at a time when those views were normal.

I honestly don't think that age can be a major factor in your elderly relatives' sexism.

Do you hear younger people coming out with these kinds of views? There are younger sexist people too of course but they come out with different sexist views.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta Thank you for this. Another great benefit of tradeswomen is that they are often dead keen to get a job done pronto so they can get away on time for the school run. No hanging around drinking tea or mithering on the BetFred App. Just in, on the tools, job done and out.

It makes me sad and surprised when anyone says tradesmen are better than tradeswomen. That has never been my experience.

If not age, what is it then?

Being shit human beings.

My mum is 78 and would never think this way. I thought those days were mostly gone as it’s REALLY old fashioned.
My nan, who would be 98 if she was alive, was more likely to have this mindset, although she wouldn’t have put up being hit, she did absolutely hate her husband but stayed with him as she believed she’d made her bed so had to lay on it. Her much older (13yrs) sister on the other hand was divorced and remarried twice.

No, I don't hear those views from young people. But I don't hear them from older people either. No one I know in either age group would spout such drivel.

Am I right in thinking that there is a lot on right-wing social media about the fact that women should be pushed back into the subserviant and marginalised status of the past? If it is older people leading that online phenomenon I would be extremely suprised.

‘Ok Alf Garnet’ patronising tinkly laugh change subject. Hopefully kids will ask who Alf Garnet is and you can explain (with suppressed glee) that he was a fictional character invented to mock the stupidity of racist and sexist old men in the last century.

There is also a female relative who has said that it was acceptable for a husband in the family to hit his wife because she refused to look after his mother.

Is anyone looking out for this woman who is being hit??

The hitting incident took place years ago. She left him for a while but then went back to him. They are still together. Nobody knows whether she is still being hit now but she wants to stay with him.

60+, those views are not normal.
Stop treating them as age related.
Clearly these are ignorant, uneducated, low class people to hold such views.
Defending domestic abusevis what scum do.
Back away and refuse to see them.
It really is as easy as that.

You have some relatives with pretty extreme views which really aren't how the majority of 60+ people think. A bit like young men being incels - really not what the majority of young people think.

Yep pretty much this

At least they probably call men is dresses men! It not all negative!