So upset about ICE killings in Minnesota

[Allotmentblackfly]

So upset about the killings. No investigation and victim blaming from the Trump administration. I see no hope for America. Trump will cancel the midterms possibly elections or will rig them. The most powerful western country - one we thought was our friend is dying
im so sad for the bereaved and do sad for the country

It must be some kind of massive adrenaline rush trying to disarm a bloke with a gun in his belt things go south cops and civilians die all the time - it’s a difficult one.

So you think all illegal immigrants should be allowed to live wherever they like?
Precisely nobody in this thread has argued that, or anything close to it.

This 'fascist regime' is no different to previous administrations
If we're talking death in ICE facilities, the highest in any single year* under Obama or Biden was 12.

(*I'm excluding 2020, where the number was 20, but half were due to Covid).

Last year, under Trump (while ICE policies were ramping up) it was 32. In the first 3 weeks of 2026 it was already 6 (if that rate holds for the year, it'd pass 100).

I'm not saying that there's a magic number for deaths in detention, at which point an administration becomes fascist, but I don't think you can reasonably argue that the current administration is no different from prior ones on this issue.

As to fascism, the reasons I consider the regime is at least "fascist like" are covered a little more earlier in the thread - but contempt for the rule of law (including routinely illegal and unconstitutional actions by ICE, as part of its current policy) and using the threat of ICE as a means of trying to extort Minesotta for voter rolls are relevant points.

the only thing he had in his hand was his phone. He was helping a woman get up.

He had his (legal) gun removed and forced to kneel and then was shot 10x.

Look im not arguing that the public sees different groups of people as more or less "deserving" of outrage on their behalf. But you cant compare what happened (terrible though it was) to Bibaa and Nicole with what happened to Sarah. Yes the sisters were treated disgustingly by police. But Wayne Cuzzens used his police badge and authority to kidnap and murder a woman. It is in no way the same. For me at least, there has been nothing even similar to what happened there. I have been wary of police a long time (yes I am brown) but i was scared of potential brutality or unlawful arrest. Until what happened to Sarah Everard I have NEVER been scared of a policeman actually not being who they say they are.
I actually remember being terrified a couple of months after her murder because I thought a police car wanted me to stop (turns out it wasnt me they were signalling) i was alone in the car with my 2 young children and genuinely thinking of driving on, even if they chased me and reporting to a police station instead of stopping.

Sorry I'm a bit slow. I'm just wondering how many people are shot during normal police events/ interactions? I would think quite alot right? So what makes these 2 special? Why now? What changed that suddenly made these into deliberate murders by the state, as opposed to normal (if unfortunate) operations? Is it convenient that Minnasota also rather you talk about this than the fraud investigation?

It seems we're all a product of what's being read online. But we need evidence to support all the claims. Especially before going around playing vigilante on the streets.

According to the The Minneapolis Police Department they 'went the entire year last year recovering about 900 guns from the street, arresting hundreds and hundreds of violent offenders, and we didn't shoot anyone.'

What changed that suddenly made these into deliberate murders by the state, as opposed to normal (if unfortunate) operations?

The reaction of the state. If you accept that as you say sometimes there will be tragic accidents, you would still expect there to be an investigation. You would expect the government to withhold comment until facts had been established.

Instead, ICE were told that they could act with impunity and the government deliberately lied about what people could see with their own eyes.

Do you see the difference?

Is it convenient that Minnasota also rather you talk about this than the fraud investigation?

Do you not think it's possible to investigate fraud and ensure that law enforcement are subject to oversight? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

But we need evidence to support all the claims. Especially before going around playing vigilante on the streets.

Who is going vigilante?

People are reacting to the government making it clear that they don't intend to abide by the law.

As it is even the NRA and MTG think that things might have got a little out of hand, and Trump is now scapegoating the people fronting the operation.

It's not a difficult one.

They should never have pushed the woman over in the first place. The footage was clear, she wasn't obstructing anything, just filming.

At no point were his hands in a place to draw the weapon.

Another poster said that you fire twice, then assess the situation. Continuing to fire into the body limp on the road in front of you? That's not "reasonable and proportionate".

This was murder. Government-sanctioned murder.

A good president represents and listens to all the people and not just their voters.
This is one of the many things Trump and his fans have got wrong.

Trump governs for the very few.

I can only agree with your first sentence and suggest you read this thread, and the others to catch yourself up.

Perhaps pay less attention to state propaganda and more attention to what's actually happening and you won't feel so behind on the facts.

Worth pointing out too, that the assumption that the 1.5m who voted for Trump in Minesotta "surely support them being there" is pretty dubious.

Even before Pretti, polls were showing a meaningful decrease in support for ICE among Republicans (recently about 75-80% approval).

Trump won the Independent vote in Minnesota in 2024, and support for ICE among Independents is cratering (currently around 25%).

From a bit of back-of-envelope math, I'd estimate Minesotta Trump-voter approval of ICE to be somewhere in the 55-60% range, and I'd be unsurprised if more post-Pretti polling reveals a further dip in support.

I don't care how you live your life, religious or not. Just pointing out that it is easy to tell that you do not follow the teachings of Christ. Which, again, makes no difference to me. It's just incredibly stupid at this point for anyone to claim that the US is a 'christian nation'. I mean, not that you did I don't think, but you get awfully upset by any mention of the hypocrisy 🤷‍♀️

This, clearly fascist, regime is far different to every previous administration. The descent into fascism is straight out of the playbook of the 1930s, right down to the 'common enemy'. Lügenpresse. Just the beginning...
You don't see it, that's ok, historical ignorance and all, but he world does.

I think that the very small population of illegal immigrants should be treated humanely, as should all human beings who are just trying to live their lives. The rhetoric of the 'worst of the worst' (see, common enemy) is simply not true. We've seen that. Pretty sure the criminal population of unauthorised immigrants are not turning up at their scheduled court appearances following all the rules set out to them. Taking their kids to school. Going to their jobs. Favourite places for ICEstapo to round them up.

Asylum seekers have fundamental human rights under the law. Domestic and International. They also have legal rights. The once sacred constitution gives all unauthorised immigrants the right to due process. The 4th amendment applies to all who are on US soil. These rights have been removed. How? By demonising a fraction of the population so the ignorant and complicit are cheering the fascist thugs on

But, hey, white nationalist South Africans? Mango Mussolini will send a plane for the right kind of immigrants' Cool

Just a small nugget of info to leave you with.
Around 15% of the total population of the US were born elsewhere. Around 27% of that 15% are 'illegal' Those who are following the correct legal pathways are in that 73%, as they should be.
If it doesn't hurt too much, why not try to apply some critical thinking to these figures?

Or this.

They are idiots.

This is the best response I have ever read 🤭.

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/ice-unloads
Even ICE think things have gone too far. Some choice quotes about their colleagues:

• “The brand new agents are idiots,”
• “I thought federal agents were supposed to be clean cut but some of them pass around a flask as we are watching a suspect,”

They don't like how the administration has been inflaming tensions by slandering protestors:

• “I can go on and on but overall it’s been a ridiculous experience,”

They also criticise the way the administration has handled the murders:

• “As much as I support this administration there needs to be more common sense in situations like this, not a knee jerk damage control narrative that does not line up with the evidence on video,”

They are well aware that the Minnesota operation has nothing to do with immigration:

• "This is a no-win situation for agents on the ground or immigration enforcement overall,”
• “I think it’s time to pull out of Minnesota, that battle is lost.”

I can understand the upset at the shootings, but I'm amazed at people supporting the anti ICE bunch, as I dont believe lawful protest extends to interfering with law enforcement operations.
I don't think they should be shot, but I do think they should be arrested.

They are mostly filming on their phones and blowing whistles to warn people, especially those with children 😳.

The ice thugs on the other hand are practically going door to door looking for people to arrest, then release or dump somewhere to meet their quota.

It's totally out of hand.

If they really were obstructing law enforcement, the protestors could be put on trial. They aren't, they always end up being released without charges because they have committed no crimes.

ICE on the other hand have no respect for the law. There are constitutional rights to freedom of assembly (1st amendment), protection from unreasonable searches without warrants (4th amendment), protection from cruel and unusual punishment (8th amendment) and due process (14th amendment). ICE routinely infringe upon these rights.

See I struggle to understand how anyone can support network agency grabbing people randomly of the street, being them up, kidnapping and killing them without bothering with any niceties like the law, due process, justice...

I can get behind anyone opposing that.

I think it was Anthony Scarramucci on TRIP US who was saying that longstanding ICE agents find the current administration's "rough them up" approach horrifying, but are worried that they'll lose their careers/pensions if they just do their jobs in a responsible/lawful manner.

I think that's either an uneducated or a very spineless take.

ICE's actions under the current administration are often illegal and unconstitutional. As stated earlier in the thread, ICE whistleblowers have leaked an internal memo, revealing that conducting unconstitutional raids of people's homes is now agency policy.

The constitution is supposed to guarantee certain freedoms, and they are being trampled - not by one or two bad apples, but by the Federal government, and by design.

And that's before we get into the acts of individual agents, detentions of immigrants who have followed legal processes, deportations without due process (including in breach of court orders).

And also before we get into the administration tipping its hand that ICE are not in Mineappolis for the predominant purpose of immigration control, but to interfere with elections (Bondi's letter to Walz).

And - while I'm no fan of how the second amendment has generally applied in the modern age - its basis for existing (to resist government tyranny) has merit. Naturally, the current administration is making legally-false statements, contrary to that constitutional right, too.

I will absolutely commend those brave protesters who are non-violently standing up for their constitutional rights - and the rights of others - in the face of a violent and criminal government.

It was absolutely police brutality but I wish people would think of their own safety and stop challenging/confronting these dangerous men. The solution isn't getting in their faces, blowing whistles, and following them around recording. This isn't what will solve the issue.

They should be treated like rabid dogs and kept as far away as possible. There's no point in being right/having the higher moral ground if it results in you being killed. Not victim blaming but armed people that have no problem shooting you aren't the people to be interacting with and defo not the people to be challenging.

Which is all well and good but the result of keeping well away means these dangerous men are free to grab anyone they please off the street.

these are unidentifiable, masked, armed men who with the support of the government are disappearing people off the street. Doesn’t matter if you’re legal, they can still take you to a detention centre for a few days, remove your phone and Id, no contact, before kicking you back out on the street if you’re lucky, or if not, whoops you’re on a plane to Ecuador.

they’ve grabbed citizens, native Americans, asylum seekers, people on legal visas, people at green card appointments. They’ve revoked visas without informing the holder, who is then illegal.

someone needs to do something. We’ve seen what happens when people do nothing. These people are protecting their neighbours. There’s people hiding children under beds ffs while ice break down doors. Sound familiar?

what do you think will solve the issue?

I think Alex Pretti himself, albeit in an unintentional context, explains this well:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Dro1-lcOgwY?si=DBg3XUdCq2w2i7lE

Who was getting in their faces? They went up to and attacked the woman.