So upset about ICE killings in Minnesota

[Allotmentblackfly]

So upset about the killings. No investigation and victim blaming from the Trump administration. I see no hope for America. Trump will cancel the midterms possibly elections or will rig them. The most powerful western country - one we thought was our friend is dying
im so sad for the bereaved and do sad for the country

Trump seems to be trying to distance himself from it all and we will see if they throw Noem under the bus, it seems very likely. Trump still said that Alex Pretti should not have been carrying, and clearly if he thinks this they need to argue for change to the constitution and gun laws. Just another example of the complete inability to think through any coherent argument or reasoning about anything. It was suggested on TRIP that Trump has responded to Minnesota CEO’s who wrote asking for de-escalation as there are some quite powerful business interests in that area. It’s possibly also the reason he backed down from Greenland because business interests didn’t like it.

Do you really think this is the kind of ‘law enforcement’ that anyone should accept in their country?

These are masked men who can take people, including children, from the street and from their homes without showing any IID and with no justification or formal process to identify targets. The government has told them that they are beyond the law.

Regardless of the pretext for them being there, do you not see why this not normal in a civilised democracy?

They seem to accept it in every other city and state. Walz and the mayor are inciting unrest and vioience in Minnesota by whipping them up into a frenzy.

They are encouraging agitators to obstruct officers, to go into operations screaming, shouting abuse blowing stupid whistles and even taking loaded weapons <with extra ammo..why?> .

Just stay back and let them do their job.

i know some stories of abuse are coming out of the detention centres. Do you think this is the minority and most are being cared for in a humane way? With the perceived transparency that I think we have in the UK (with lots more work still to do) I can’t see how a country could get away with this.

You think people should just stay back and allow the government to mistreat their neighbours?

If people see government agents doing wrong, they have a duty to speak up about it. History has shown us what happens when good people do nothing.

Looks like Republicans need to rewrite the 2nd amendment then.

Not sure blowing a whistle constitutes a crime.

Shooting an unarmed man 10x in the back does seem like one.

There's been allegations of ill treatment in centres for years going way back to Obams. It isn't ok, it needs changing but it isn't a new 'nazi' Trump thing and yes it will be the minority. I've never actually seen evidence just allegations.

I suspect they have gone harder at things in Minnesota exactly because they didn’t think they would get the push back they would elsewhere and could bring in the fraud issue to frame it all. Then they could say look what a great job we did there but it has backfired terribly.

Rigging?? But When Trump accused the other side of rigging in his previous elections I bet you thought that was a load of nonsense?

Blowing whistles does not constituent a crime obviously but it causes an annoying distraction that is why they do it. Why would you when there are armed officers trying carry out complex operations?

Loads of comments online from experts in the US saying you do not go into a law enforcement operation area with a loaded weapon. First thing you do is declare it.

He should not have been shot but we can all see how a situation escalates.

A masked man knocks on your door.

How do you know that he is ‘doing his job’?

Perhaps it's time that the US got rid of its ridiculous gun laws, and then there would be no option for innocent people to carry guns.

It seems perverse to insist on people having the right to bear arms but then to execute them for doing so.

Agree completely.

I think people should stand back and let law enforcement officers arrest anyone who is in the US illegally or who have broken the terms of their visas, yes.

It isn't about 'good people doing nothing' which yet again is a sick and incorrect equivalence to what the nazis did , this is about agitators obstructing law enforcement officers which I hate to point out is not allowed.

He was holding his phone and helping a woman get to her feet. Then shot ten times in the back.

If the 2nd amendment needs to be rewritten then the Republicans need to do that.

By your measure the armed Jan6 protestors should have been gunned down.

Do you also think people should stand back and let immigration officers arrest and abuse people who are in the US legally? People who are US citizens who happen not to be white?

You can't have loaded weapons whilst agitating in a law enforcement operation. I'm in the UK and I know that. He should've declared it or left it <and all the ammo> at home.

Yes agree they need to ban guns but they won't.

They had already disarmed him by the time they shot him in any case.

Been talking to family in Minnesota. iCE are grabbing anyone who isn’t White, they went into a Diner last week, and arrested 3 off duty police officers, because they are Black. Minnesota doesn’t even have that big a community of immigrants. They are taking non-white people, off the streets, and making them prove they have a right to be there, and they wonder why people are angry about it
They sent a 5 year old child, to knock on doors, to draw people out of thier homes, it’s disgusting.

And the people who are in the US legally? What rights do they have? What would prevent an ICE officer from pulling you off the street and detaining you?

How would you know they were an ICE officer?

They should 'let' enforcement officers arrest and detain, or arrest question and release anyone whom they believe to be illegal or breached terms of their visas regardless of the colour of the skin.

Quote : " Loads of comments online from experts in the US saying you do not go into a law enforcement operation area with a loaded weapon. First thing you do is declare it."

That's good. So I hope you are emailing your reps demanding a federal law saying that. No guns where law enforcement are operating. Given that law enforcement operate everywhere,

Could be interesting test cases. Eg, a noise complaint about someone shooting on their own land. Cops turn up to check all ok. Ahh, now it's interesting.

I bet the NRA are totally on board with that.

I hope MAGA do it.

Including you? How long should they be able to hold you? Who do you complain to if they don’t follow the rules? Again, if a masked man comes to your door with no ID and asks you to get into a van, is that OK?

Please try to debate without being so unpleasant.

You as well as others have constantly fearmongered the 'nazis didn't start at the gas chambers it evolved over 10yrs' story, when I post a link to alleged illtreatment in detainment centres from 10yrs ago proving this has not escalated to a 'final solution' I'm the one talking rubbish??