Dads using female communal changing room

[Strawberrryfields]

Not sure how I feel about this so looking for opinions and whether I should do anything.

A couple of times recently I’ve been changing my child after swimming and a dad has come in to change his child in the communal female changing room. It’s after lessons so only children changing. There are communal female, communal male and a number of individual cubicles. It gets very busy at peak times so at times you may need to wait for an individual cubicle.

It feels weird to me a grown man being in there and my instinct is that he should use the private cubicles, though he is clearly there with his child helping them get ready. I also understand him not wanting to take his child into the men’s communal changing rooms with random men in there but to me, he is a random man.

Should I say something? Would you? Chances are it’s just a normal dad changing his kid but I don’t feel entirely comfortable with it but not sure if IABU?

@RedToothBrush can you point us to the specific statutory provision that makes it illegal for men to be in womens spaces?

To be clear, I'm not trying to justify voyeurism or any other sort of perverse behaviour but out of curiosity about the law.

"So the point still stands. Its illegal for men to be in female only spaces."

There is no argument that it would be illegal if the person refuses to leave - but as far as I can see, simply entering without any intent to cause harm is not illegal.

I did not start making legal arguments - I don't need the law to know that it is not appropriate. But you did - so please do provide some evidence.

Thanks @RedToothBrush

it seems some men have a problem with women saying no. And thy will continue to try to find a justification for them entering a single sex space in contravention of the law.

I expect that the pool will tell the man not to enter the womens changing space

if he continues after being told one way or another then he is a creepy pervert who gets his rocks off from pushing women’s boundaries and he deserves to be reported to the police.

A single sex space

women (or men) are entitled to this.

what happens when a man enters a women’s single sex space? What sort of space does it become?

This!!!!

I would think the men were clueless. They have seen Female Changing and thought "My child is female and she's the one changing". They have simply not thought women might also be changing or that older children might also be having lessons. Ask the club to make it clear to all parents that they should use the appropriate changing room or a cubicle.

Chances are it’s just a normal dad changing his kid

this - you’ve said it already

statistically your child is in more danger feo
you than random adults

Good god . He needs to get out and stay out of report this

I remember this happening with one dad when I took DDs swimming. It made no sense as it was a school and it wasn't like there would be random men getting changed in the boys' changing room, only those that were there with their kids for swimming. And the girls' changing room was rammed anyway, full of mums with their kids. There were women getting changed after the mum and baby session and he got very short shrift.

If it's only children changing why cant he use the men's communal changing room? It would only other men with their children changing.

Only women should use women's. End of.

I don’t see an issue with this, where we go both mums and dads are free to use male or female for swimming lesson because it’s so busy. There are plenty of private cubicles for everyone to use for changing.

I don't understand why it's better for this man to take his daughter to the men's. How is it better for his little girl to change in a room with boys up to 11yo and their dads? I assume the dad prefers the scenario where his little girl is changing with other girls, in a space that he probably considers safer.

By all means, ask that there are no dads in the women's and mums in the mens by requesting that in those circumstances they wait for the cubicles. The pool needs more cubicles and family changing rooms. But I don't think there's need to vilify a dad looking after his little DD, who is possibly narrow-thinking about changing her in a safe space without thinking about his own presence there.

If she’s young she’s presumably not going to be looking at the boys or men, and her dad would be able to deal with any pervy behaviour on their part towards her.

Can you not see how inappropriate it is for a grown man to be in a space where girls who may be going through puberty are changing?

Well exactly! Of course he "prefers the scenario where his little girl is is changing with other girls, in a space that he probably considers safer," but he doesn't just get to do what he prefers with no consideration for other girls who might prefer that he not be there, in what is supposed to be a man-free zone.

Perhaps that’s true at population level but not on an individual basis when I know I’m not dangerous. So in my case a random adult is more likely to be a danger. Potentially moreso with a random adult who is willing to publicly push boundaries.

Or as several people have said (and my own uncertainty) it could be a simple be a misunderstanding, he wasn’t thinking etc. But in certain circumstances it’s best to just nip it in the bud rather than give the benefit of the doubt. With hindsight that would be my approach next time.

I don't think he should have gone in but it's really tricky as a parent of a child. My son is 7 and I never know where we should go. Individual cubicles are always full. I almost wish those were reserved for people with kids of the opposite gender. It's the worst thing about swimming lessons

Because in their changing room it is only girls under 8. In the female changing room it is girls of any age- teenagers, young women etc. while it might be appropriate for a young child to be naked in front of a man, it’s really not appropriate for a 14 year old. Think how uncomfortable having a man in the female changing room would make older girls feel.
Would you feel comfortable being in the men’s changing room with 14 year old boys naked in front of you?

It’s not boys up to 11, it’s up to 8 years. In every single swimming pool changing room I’ve gone into it’s been 8.

A 7 year old girl changing in front of a 7 year old boy is not a problem. A 13 year old girl changing in front of a man is. It’s really not that difficult to work out.

It’s true at every level - parents kill and abuse children almost exclusively so your child is at more risk from you or her dad than random people

Open your eyes, you just answered your own question, it's a dad and a kid???

Why not, ?

Huhhh???

Because it’s not appropriate for a grown man to be in a changing room with 11 year old girls who are changing, some of whom are likely to be going through puberty.

Why only naked young girls? He shouldn’t be with unrelated naked young boys either. In fact, come to think of it, no adult of either sex should be with unrelated naked young children. That has to be right, unless you think that child sex abuse is specific to certain sexual preferences or sexes (although I appreciate it’s much more likely to be committed by men, but the victims can surely be of either sex).

Having established that, it must follow that the answer is that children shouldn’t be in communal changing rooms at all. It wouldn’t be any better if he goes in the men’s, because he’s still exposed to naked children of either sex.

Obviously if there’s any chance of people undressing who are older than a young child, then there’s no question he shouldn’t be in the women’s.

I thought this question was really easy when I first read the OP but thinking about it, it really isn’t. It uncovers the fact that the real problem is that communal changing areas suck and we need more cubicles, both in single sex spaces and communal spaces.