Dads using female communal changing room

[Strawberrryfields]

Not sure how I feel about this so looking for opinions and whether I should do anything.

A couple of times recently I’ve been changing my child after swimming and a dad has come in to change his child in the communal female changing room. It’s after lessons so only children changing. There are communal female, communal male and a number of individual cubicles. It gets very busy at peak times so at times you may need to wait for an individual cubicle.

It feels weird to me a grown man being in there and my instinct is that he should use the private cubicles, though he is clearly there with his child helping them get ready. I also understand him not wanting to take his child into the men’s communal changing rooms with random men in there but to me, he is a random man.

Should I say something? Would you? Chances are it’s just a normal dad changing his kid but I don’t feel entirely comfortable with it but not sure if IABU?

"He seems to think he has a right EVEN AFTER EVERYTHING all the women posted on here that he STILL should be allowed in there. Again proving the above point even more firmly."

Seriously? May I recommend that you read what I wrote and tell me where exactly I have said what you claim to have said?

The man isn’t allowed into the women’s single sex space. It is illegal for him to be allowed in that space and not allow all men into that space.

What about this is hard?

I do believe it is more complicated as there is also the aspect of the child. No-one would argue if this was simply a man - but this is a father supervising the daughter in a room where apparently other girls (presumably of a similar age) are changing.

It’s girls aged up to 11. They shouldn’t be changing in front of a random man.

If his daughter is under 8, he should be taking her into the men’s. He can keep her safe there, rather than violating the privacy of the older girls.

Perhaps we're talking about two different aspects? Because having read you again, it seems to me we largely agree.

The pool needs to provide such a space, and if they fail to do so, it is illegal - I agree.

If the father does not leave when asked to do so, he violates the pools T&Cs - and if he does it again, it is harassment - I agree.

The only disagreement, as I see it, is, that I don't think him being here at the very first instance is necessarily illegal.

But it is. Because he’s not allowed into the single sex space without it being a mixed space and all men having to be allowed.

why are you determined to permit this man in where he isn’t allowed?

Thanks - I see that the age group was larger than I assumed initially. My experiences with this kind of event is that the group of children is of a similar age, which might have contributed to my misunderstanding. Pools where I live don't have events with such age ranges.

Its not an event. Its just basic swimming lessons.

And you dismissed my trauma and minimised it. Which is frankly insulting and disgusting and belittling.

I don't want to permit anyone. As I said, I don't think it was the right thing to do - I just don't think it was necessary illegal.

Let's put it to a test: if a mother had called the police and they would come - would they be able to press charges? Would it be likely that the man would be convicted?

But I think this is a rather hypothetical question that doesn't solve anything.

As I have said - it was never my intention and if I came across as such, I am really sorry.

If I as a woman was in that space changing and the man refused to leave when asked then I would expect the police to charge him with voyeurism.

Is that clear enough for you?

I don't disagree.

So wtf was all the “what would the police do” about?

Men are not allowed in women’s spaces. Nor are women allowed in men’s.

why have you made such a song and dance about expecting people of whatever sex to simply obey the law? And stay out of spaces where they are not permitted?

These girls are up to the age of 11. Many of those 11 year old girls will already be dealing with periods.

the changing may be open to other women who are lawfully entitled to a single sex space.

why on earth do men think it’s ok to force their way in where they are not allowed.

women say no. Trauma or no trauma I say no.

why can you have to argue back and tell me I don’t know enough about the law to state the a position? Why would you do that?

I never said anyone should force their way nor that I think it was appropriate - all I said was that there are genuinely innocent explanations and that attacking with a mob-mentality might not be the best approach.

"why can you have to argue back and tell me I don’t know enough about the law to state the a position? Why would you do that?"

Don't I have the right to defend myself against accusations - especially accusations that keep changing goalposts. You claimed it was illegal for the man to be there in the first place, due to the 2010 Equalities Act. This is clearly and evidently not true because the Act does not apply to the individual.

You then claimed it would be harassment if he did not leave when asked to do so - and I agree.

But before? Why would it be illegal? Presumably it's not voyeurism, would it be a Public Order offence?

And for the avoidance of doubt: I do not think the behaviour is appropriate and I don't think he should have done it.

Do explain to me why it wouldn’t be voyeurism in the circumstances I described. Thank you.

Surely dad's take there daughters into the men's changing room to change just like mums take sons in to the women's changing rooms until they are old enough to go in themselves. I don't take my 4 year old son into the men's changing rooms he comes in the women's with me same with toilets. He needs reporting hes either a perv or a bit thick and needs telling

In what way are those two criteria met?

• for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification, he observes another person doing a private act, and
• he knows that person does not consent to being observed for his sexual gratification.

Wait until your 4-year old decided he no longer wants to go to the women's changing room - because they are women. Do you want to force him to see naked women?

What the 4yo ‘decides’ is irrelevant.

If your 4yo daughter decides she won’t go in the men’s with you, and there’s no unisex cubicles, then she doesn’t go. You don’t go in the women’s because your 4yo daughter has decided.

It’s never okay for a man to be in the women’s changing, no matter how many scenarios you come up with. And no one makes a mistake of going in. Men know from a young age they are not to be in there. The ones who go in, just don’t care.

This same scenario happened to me recently. The dad in question shouted out to announce himself and asked if anyone minded. No one responded as we were so taken aback. I minded a lot but was too worried to be the first to say anything. So anyway he took the stunned silence as permission to come into the changing room.
I wish I’d reported it now.
The pool makes it clear that changing rooms are segregated by sex for ages 8 plus.
Now I think about it, there is a mum who brings her son in (definitely over 8) while her little girl gets changed. I find that weird too - why can’t he sit outside at the comfortable tables like my son does?

Now I think about it, there is a mum who brings her son in (definitely over 8) while her little girl gets changed. I find that weird too - why can’t he sit outside at the comfortable tables like my son does?

I’d report her too.

"It’s never okay for a man to be in the women’s changing, no matter how many scenarios you come up with. "

So you rather die than have a male paramedic?

It isn’t clear the age of all the children getting changed - you mentioned primary school children OP?

It is worth bearing in mind, those saying it’s just kids getting changed, that in primary schools it is generally from year 5 upwards that boys and girls change separately for PE. That’s age 9. So from that age, even the kids wouldn’t want to change among children of the the opposite sex, let alone an adult being in there of the opposite sex.

So the bloke is standing there watching me get changed after I’ve asked him to leave and he’s still there after being asked to leave.

And you don’t think he’s getting a sexual kick out of it? Really?

You tell your four year old to do as they are told

Or you go swimming somewhere else where there is a different changing set up.