Dads using female communal changing room

[Strawberrryfields]

Not sure how I feel about this so looking for opinions and whether I should do anything.

A couple of times recently I’ve been changing my child after swimming and a dad has come in to change his child in the communal female changing room. It’s after lessons so only children changing. There are communal female, communal male and a number of individual cubicles. It gets very busy at peak times so at times you may need to wait for an individual cubicle.

It feels weird to me a grown man being in there and my instinct is that he should use the private cubicles, though he is clearly there with his child helping them get ready. I also understand him not wanting to take his child into the men’s communal changing rooms with random men in there but to me, he is a random man.

Should I say something? Would you? Chances are it’s just a normal dad changing his kid but I don’t feel entirely comfortable with it but not sure if IABU?

Well not really. Lots of problems with recording and voyeurism on mixed sex changing villages.

This. It's disgusting and so humiliating for young girls having to change in front of him. I wonder if he enjoys watching young girls and women change? I mentioned it to DH and he was horrified and thought he must be perverted.

Not at the pool but in dd ballet club, dad's stay with their dds getting changed and get all affronted when asked to leave. "My dd is only 6!" But there's teenage girls getting changed too.

I told dd that she never gets charged in front of any man and took her to the loo. Not only do we need to push back firmly with these men, but show our girls it's not ok to put up with it. If others want to take that chance all in the name of be kind, my dd can show she won't just feel uncomfortable to spare some random man's feelings.

If I took my sons to the male communal changing room it wouldn't be tolerated. No half decent man would do this either. My dh would never dream of doing this. No man with half a brain cell would.

There are always some of those.

I'm the mother of a son. We have raised him in the knowledge that women and girls are not here to not make themselves or their spaces smaller to suit the convenience of men.

When he was 8 years old we stopped using the female changing facilities. A good many mothers were bringing in boys of much older. There were girls that age who were clearly self-conscious.

It's instilling entirely the wrong message into boys - we don't raise them in a vacuum and I can't protect him from the outside, but these attitudes start in the home.

Yes, it's more inconvenient for me. But that's for me to work around, not the rest of the female gym membership.

He should not be in there and it’s weird for him
to do that.

I can maybe understand it’s equally not ok for his daughter to change in a room full of boys though.

They need more spaces to handle situations like this.

I told dd that she never gets charged in front of any man and took her to the loo.

Except that's exactly what we expect to happen when a dad takes his daughter swimming, and that's what people are suggest happens here in any event.

The only alternative is 100% cubicles.

I told dd that she never gets charged in front of any man

She obviously does when her Father takes her.

What about a 12 year old girl, who has already reached puberty, having to change in front of some random bloke. Not on.

Obviously that's not on. Whether that is a factor here depends on the ages of the kids getting changed. Is this a large council pool with a large number of kids with a wide range of ages or a small private pool with a dozen 5 year olds. It could honestly be either.

Sticking to the parents sex is more sensible, it the degree to which it is essential for privacy really does depend on the set up.

No she doesn't. This is ballet. There is only communal changing for shows. Dh never takes her to these. At swimming she uses a cubical on her own. She doesn't get undressed in front of her dad. When she was about six dh helped her in her own cubicle. Why presume her dad is going into communal changing rooms or watching her get changed? The moment she didn't need his help to dressed, he stopped.

Even he he was watching her get changed routinely which in itself is also weird to presume, he wouldn't be doing it in the lady's changing room.

No one needs to get undressed in front of men. Just because it's a changing room and there's a man present your obliged to let your dd to get naked. Or your showing her it's OK and normal. It has never been normal in the UK ( presume the op is in the UK or this is all moot). So why start now if it feels off

You actually meant there were only 4 replies to your thread, and 2 of them actually agreed with the vast majority on this thread

Well yes, but the 50/50 split in that thread shows it isn't as obviously "common sense" that the segregation in these situations is based on the sex of the adult rather that the sex of the person getting changed.

If I was in this situation I'd ask a member of staff, I don't think I'd have been able to guess before I read this thread.

I'm not sure I really believe the OP is genuine, feels like a troll to me, but if it is the Pool need to spell the policy out because there's obviously needless confusion.

Dh never takes her

Well that's certainly one solution.

A man should never be in a female changing room, take " your " daughter into a " closed" mens cubicle

So sorry to hear that. As a bloke, I think it is just so wrong that some blokes feel that they should be allowed to go into women's changing facilities where women/young girls are getting changed, it is bang out of order and I would suggest that these blokes are fully aware of what they are doing.

Also though,

My local pool has a completely different policy in lesson times compared to normal opening.
During lessons the changing rooms are designated according to swimming level, 1-4 in one 5-7 in the other. This splits the number of people in each one more evenly but does mean that it is mixed sex in both. There are some cubicles but not enough, so I have shielded my DD with her towel to get changed when needed.
This policy is very clearly signed so everyone is aware.
I'd check what your pools policy is then raise it with the pool if necessary.

Usually boys under 8 are allowed in the ladies with a parent. Older than 8 he should be in the men’s.

The reason to exclude men from areas where women and girls are changing is to prevent voyeurism and sexual assault. Statistically those are crimes men commit. You going into the men’s with your son may make men uncomfortable but you are not a danger to them, some men going into the ladies will be a danger and we don’t know which are so all should keep out.

The reason to exclude men from areas where women and girls are changing is to prevent voyeurism and sexual assault

There are no women or men getting changed and men aren't excluded for areas where girls are changing because the children are randomly distributed between the two changing rooms. We're talking about keeping the fully clothed adults apart.

That.

Exactly.

Exactly what age do you deem it acceptable for a girl to have to change in front of men?

8, which is considered standard, when they need supervision?
9/10, when puberty starts?
11/12, when they go to secondary school?
16, the age of consent?
18, when they are legally adults

Surely the age they have to get changed in front of men is the age where they can't be left alone to do it?

What's the alternative - ban children from events with communal changing?

My co-ed primary age kids classes get changed for PE together in the same classroom so it's literally impossible to ensure an adult of the same sex as all the kids is available. It's probably not ideal but what's the alternative?

That was in reply to poster who thinks Dads should be allowed in girls changing rooms, seemingly missing the fact that older girls are changing not just younger ones requiring help.

This happened to me too. The first time I directly asked him to leave / he made some noises about being on his way out and left. None of the other mums spoke up - shocking! Next week he came back - I had to raise my voice - he called me crazy! Luckily 2 other women joined and and clarified to him that he was the crazy one and to get out.
I wrote angry but factual complaints to the swim school and premises. It took a bit of back and forth and notices went up that the sex of the adult determines which room they use and not that of the child, and the above 8 rule.

it can be done - persevere with your complaint and quote the rule from the swim England website if you are challenged.

100% agree

any man entering a space where teenage and younger girls are getting changed is wrong and they need to be kicked out and embarrassed so they never dare to do it again.

its so painful to see little girls entering puberty awkwardly changing - even in front of other women. They don’t need a male audience, they need protection by the adult women in that situation. We need to speak up and stop this. Insist on signage and adherence to rules everytime we see this happen.

Absolutely not.

The statistics on this shows that they are a magnet for voeuyerism and assaults.

Male and female and then have a third space for the hard of thinking.