to think expectations of grandfathers vs grandmothers are wildly uneven even among women?

[HazelMember]

I keep noticing how little is expected of grandfathers when it comes to childcare compared to grandmothers and a lot of the pressure seems to come from other women as well.

Grandfathers can occasionally “babysit”, take a child out once in a while, or simply not mess things up, and they’re praised for being involved and helpful. The bar feels incredibly low.

Meanwhile grandmothers are often expected to provide regular childcare, know routines, remember appointments, cook, clean, offer emotional support and be constantly available. If they don’t step up, there’s often judgement.

I’ve seen comments along the lines of how a woman had loads of help from her own mum, so it’s unfair that she now won’t look after her grandchildren as if that automatically obliges her. People stay silent about the men.

What strikes me is how normalised this is, even among women who otherwise recognise how unequal childcare expectations are. The assumption still seems to be that women will do the caring, even a generation later, while men get a pass.

Same generation. Same family role. Completely different expectations.

AIBU to think this double standard is outdated and unfair?

Doesn’t it boil down to what they are willing to do? My mother is very comfortable looking after my children, she engages with them, takes them out, organises activities and doesn’t see being with them as a chore.

My dad is very willing to help out but hasn’t got a clue. He will drive them places, turn on the tv, hand them sweets and might mange to chuck some freezer food in the oven. As other have pointed out, my mum did all the childraising (and was a teacher). My dad worked 14 hr days and often weekends too.

ergo, I’ll always ask mum first, then appeal to dad if no other options!

My dad was a bit clueless when mine were toddlers (though to be fair he used to work abroad for months at a time when DBro and I were toddlers so he doesn't have much experience to fall back on).

Now my youngest is 5 he will happily babysit if me and mum fancy going for a day out and DH is working. He makes the kids pasta and either let's them a lot of screen time or if it's nice weather gets the DC to help with the gardening. He's also taught DS1 to make a decent pasta sauce.

You mean these older men who refuse to engage with their families, called looking after their own kids "babysitting" & thought a full time job entitled them to an unpaid female domestic servant (who also had to have a paid job because he couldn't earn enough to properly provide)? Many of these men habitually engage in weaponised incompetence, can't control their tempers & genuinely believe they are owed a quiet life & respect. They've purposely made themselves completely unsuitable for caring (children or adults) because it's hard slog that they're unwilling to do. These men are finally starting to reap what they sow & it can't come soon enough. Leave them to their much deserved loneliness.

I went NC with my own dad after he hit my eldest. He's dead now, I have no regrets.

The fact that child and house stuff mostly still falls to women despite it now being the norm for them to work full time shows that men haven’t moved on much at all. I know there are many that are ‘better’ but generally women are not having it all they are pretty much doing it all.

However I think part of this is that many don’t expect their DP/DH to step up or they know they simply won’t. The easy option is their DM or DMIL, they know they will know what to do and are reliable. Many DGM are probably wondering why the DH isn’t stepping up but the ‘he earns more’ or ‘ has a big important job’ is trotted out. It’s difficult as a woman, knowing what you know about having children, to not support your daughter when you know in reality it will be her that suffers.

No, caring for the children you brought into the world is below the bare minimum. It doesn't entitle you to elder care.

I agree. You chose to have children, so you look after them. They dont "owe" you elder care as a result any more than grandparents "owe" babysitting

I've only noticed that on here.
My dad did most of the grandchildren childcare in my family. My mum made their meals and my dad took them out on all sorts of wonderful adventures, played games with them, told them the most amazing bedtime stories, did the nursery/school drops offs and pick ups, taught them to ride their bikes, the list is endless! He was the best grandad.
I do think children benefit massively from spending time with different generations.

I can really resonate with this post.
Im recently divorced (4 yrs back after 36 yrs) and Im the first to be asked for ad hoc /extra days plus do 2 regular days each week. I work but flexibly as self employed and I enjoy the time with them but XH rarely helps or just does big Disney Grandad swooping in stuff occasionally.
However, I help out and enjoy time with them but I'm seen as the default one and there's an assumption that 'My Time' isn't important and can just be filled up with ad hoc helping.

There are plenty of people who beleive a woman's solution purpose in life is raising children either their own or helping with grandchildren

And a grandfathers would have to be locked in doors with any children as anytime a man is seen with children there is the paedophile panic amd the grandfather cant walk past any other children

Unfortunately too many men are not to be trusted with young children.

Work is so often used an excuse for these pathetic men who father children but then have no clue how to look after them.

My own DF worked ridiculous hours but he still knew how to look after us and he did.

Plenty of women raise their children on their own and managed to work too.

Yet women still have babies with them.

"Women are to blame for what men do"

Some of the expectations arise because women already know their dads would opt out of parenting if they could (many did) and they’ve come to terms with that - it’s not a surprise that my dad “doesn’t like” kids birthday parties and doesn’t really want to come to his grandchildren’s. He didn’t come to any of his children’s parties so it’s not a big deal. But when a grandmother lets slip that she doesn’t much like kids parties either, it can be “disappointing” or even upsetting - perhaps she didn’t actually like doing your own parties! Perhaps she would have opted out of my parties like dad did if she thought she’d get away with it?! That can be more shocking or upsetting.

not in all families of course! But probably in some of those where women are “sad that DGM doesn’t want to play with her grandchildren” or whatever.

Its not a grandparents whether male or female responsibility to BABYSIT or childmind their grandchildren. However spending time with them is different.

If a woman keeps having babies with a man who is a crap father, who is responsible?

If a father is crap and he knows no idea how to look after a child he has fathered, who is responsible?

The answer is not to draft in another woman to make up for crap fathers.

Completely agree.
But it is often mothers that will offer care.
My own father did nothing for us, and certainly never did anything for his grandchildren.

I have several friends that when their mothers died they completely dropped the rope with their fathers who did expect them to take over from their mother in running around after them.
They got a really rude awakening when that didn't happen.
They were told to crack on and get on with it.
Their daughters were too busy with work snd their children, and privately they told me they were largely ambivalent about their fathers.
They had deeply loved their mothers.

Another friends MIL died suddenly and her FIL whom she didn't particularly like, assumed his two DIL would now be running around after him.
Again this friend made it very clear to her husband that his father was nothing to do with her whatsoever, and not to involve her in any way.
5 years on she has not moved an inch on this.

There have been so many posts where women have posted about how upset they are that their DMs are not interested in their children yet there is rarely mention of DFs and if they are mentioned, it is considered to be pretty much the norm that they don't get involved.

Agree with this. I'm not blaming women for mens behaviour but I'm blaming these women who only ever moan about their mum's or MILs not giving free help and no mention of the grandfathers.

So are you now blaming the grandmother for having (now adult) children with the grandfather, 30+ years ago? Or are we now talking about fathers of young children rather than grandfathers?

Your arguments are incoherent. It seems like you are seeing an imbalance between what grandfathers do and what grandmothers do and are grasping around to blame a woman, any woman or all women, for it.

Who are you in this story, are you the put-upon grandmother or the mother with an unhelpful FIL, or what?

It's true I've never seen a "I'm hurt my DF/DFIL won't help with the kids" post. Sometimes they are lumped in as a parental unit but the emphasis is nearly always on the grandma.

And to be honest I caught myself annoyed with my mother the other day as she doesn't help whens she comes to see her DGC, and it occurred to me for the first time that I would never expect my dad to help, and the unfairness of that.

That said, my mum always suggests that her visit is to help, and ends up not being the case, while my dad would be transparent that he's coming for a visit, so there's no disappointment. But it would be naive and disingenuous of me to say that's the only reason I expect it of her and not him.

Your generalisation is generally true! But my brother is hugely involved with his grandson and leads on ad hoc and regular activities, so there are exceptions. I guess my bro is a relatively young grandad, if that makes any difference. He works full time and is completely committed to his grandson’s day to day welfare and development.

I’m talking about current expectations placed on people in the grandparent role.

My point isn’t about personal blame, it’s about social norms. Specifically, how caring labour is still assumed to be women’s work, even a generation later and how that assumption is often reinforced by other women as well as by men.

Noticing that dynamic isn’t the same thing as “blaming women”. It’s about recognising how gendered expectations get reproduced culturally. It is recognising that pressure comes from other women too. Rather than get the men involved, women mostly rope in other women.

There’s no need to know “who I am in the story” for the point to stand. This isn’t a personal grievance post, it’s an observation about a broader double standard where grandmothers take the majority of the burden with childcare for grandchildren.

You can disagree with the premise but there’s nothing incoherent about pointing out that two people in the same family role are judged by very different standards.

Then you wouldn’t be able to any way. If you have the time and choose not to because they won’t give more childcare after loving and raising you and giving you a good quality of life, as if that isn’t enough.

I don’t expect any help from either of my parents, but both have offered in their realms
of capability: DM with pregnancy and menopause and child raising and school standards and cooking and home keeping, DF with car stuff, financial matters, investment ideas, DIY, legal questions.

Why would I ask my DF to help with childcare when he already does so much? Why would k ask my mum for her opinions on which garage to take my car to when she already does so much? And why should I criticize my parents for dividing up labour and interests the way they have?

I don’t understand what point you’re labouring.