to think expectations of grandfathers vs grandmothers are wildly uneven even among women?

[HazelMember]

I keep noticing how little is expected of grandfathers when it comes to childcare compared to grandmothers and a lot of the pressure seems to come from other women as well.

Grandfathers can occasionally “babysit”, take a child out once in a while, or simply not mess things up, and they’re praised for being involved and helpful. The bar feels incredibly low.

Meanwhile grandmothers are often expected to provide regular childcare, know routines, remember appointments, cook, clean, offer emotional support and be constantly available. If they don’t step up, there’s often judgement.

I’ve seen comments along the lines of how a woman had loads of help from her own mum, so it’s unfair that she now won’t look after her grandchildren as if that automatically obliges her. People stay silent about the men.

What strikes me is how normalised this is, even among women who otherwise recognise how unequal childcare expectations are. The assumption still seems to be that women will do the caring, even a generation later, while men get a pass.

Same generation. Same family role. Completely different expectations.

AIBU to think this double standard is outdated and unfair?

If you’re taking MN as your source of this information…it’s because every single male is a vile, horrible, sexual, financial and emotional abuser that you couldn’t possibly be in a room alone with let alone leave a child with because before you’d know there’s 200 pictures of them on the dark web for sale to the highest bidder.

Or is that just what you perceive? We have no support from grandparents but of the 3 sets of them in our street that help their families - the granddad picks the kids up from school in 2 of those families and the grandmother the other. At the school gates I’d say it’s a fairly even split, as for what goes on while closed doors in all those instances you, me or anyone out side of those families can’t say.

Yes, as long as they don't expect their adult kids to provide elder care.

The bar for men is much lower. Fathers or grandfathers, doesn’t matter.

I don’t expect more from my mum and MIL but they are just more reliable and more interested than my dad and FIL. My dad offers help probably more than my mum but he just doesn’t follow through. I’m more comfortable asking my mum go help because we’re close (she was a single mum and I saw my dad infrequently) and I just know she’ll follow through. I’m more critical of my dad because if you’re not going to help, just don’t offer it.

I’m so grateful that my mum is reliable. I am grateful whether we get help from my mum or my dad and express that gratitude.

Ive been asked many times if I should keep working full time - apparently I should be providing childcare for my GD. I am at the top of my earning/paying down the mortgage/paying up pension years. Not a single person expects DH to go part time - that would be ridiculous because he is a man at the top of his earning years.

My own DF was very much a man of his time (my siblings and I were ‘60’s children), he went to work and never did any housework, cooking or childcare. He was fun on the weekends though and taught us a lot of practical skills. By the time my eldest child was born, my parents had retired. They came over nearly every day to visit and volunteered to childmind when I went back to work. I fully expected most of this to be done by DM, but DF took to it with such alacrity, changing (terry) nappies, feeding and playing with the baby so well that DM took a part time job and left him to it. They had a fantastic bond and saw each other nearly every day for 2 1/2 years until my DF sadly died suddenly. So glad that they had the chance to spend that time together

i know you are probably right about society in general, but my Dad took care of school drop offs and pick ups for years, and looked after DC after school too. I never expected him to, but he offered and I’m incredibly grateful as I wouldn’t have been able to keep my job without him.

Ime it's more an own parents versus husband's parents situation.I can count on my penis the number of times my husband's parents babysat either of our elder two (our third was born after they had both died). OTOH, my dad, who is 84 now, fed them, changed their nappies, bathed them, and did all the caring duties that he'd done with my DB and me, on the occasions that Mum and he babysat our children. He was 17, and the oldest, when Gran's youngest child was born, so he was used to helping out, changing nappies etc.

Stereotypes don’t come from nowhere. Probably most grandmothers were more involved as mothers. Several generations ago it was unheard of for grandfathers to play a caring role.

That said, I had to pry my dad off my kids when it was their bedtime. He provided regular childcare for all of his grandchildren. Right up until his late 70s. He’s the only grandfather I know that did.

@UnctuousUnicorns you can count on your WHAT? 😂

As in they babysat their son's (i.e. my husband's) and my children zero fucking times! Their own daughter's (my SIL) kids, that was a different matter! Bitter, me? 🤷‍♀️

I also think there is a strong element of society not seeing older women as real people with their own interests, hopes and dreams. A lot of people are all for equality of the sexes, unless the women is older- then her only purpose should be to provide free childcare and free elder care. It seems older people are firmly boxed back into traditional roles.

I know several extremely successful career women who would identify as feminists but treat their own mums like unpaid lackeys who should be grateful that their older years are spent doing unpaid childcare and school runs. The daughters would never dream of putting the same expectations on their dad.

You’re not wrong, both my own dad and my FIL like to see that the kids exist. They have never provided any hands on help at all. So I accept that; because they don’t have a clue what to do with children.

I do think the next generation of men will be better: we haven’t achieved full equality at home generally but the days of men doing absolutely nothing; not even changing nappies, are surely dead and gone,

My dad and grandfathers were involved in my life since I was born. My male cousin taught me how to roller skate and I have spent more time with him and his family than I did with any of my female cousins’ families including with his in-laws and they are very family-oriented (both MIL and FIL are engaged with their grandchildren). My uncles (parents’ brothers and married in) were always encouraging and supportive and I have great memories with my male cousins that are around my age (Have a massive family).

Some uncles weren’t as involved with their kids but a majority in my family are. Their sons who had involved dads became involved dads themselves.

My sister and I who rarely agree on anything both agree that our dad raised us more than our mother did. I think it took her having her own child to see how much he actually did for us. They butted heads constantly when she was a teen. Our dad was the one taking us to his parents, taking us to museums (mother hated museums) and cultural events, helping us with our homework, dropping us off at school events and me at Girl Scouts, teaching us sports, driving us to dance classes, he also cleaned the house every Sunday (we had our chores too), did the yard work, encouraged us, etc, things parents are supposed to do because that is their duty. That’s what his father did for him and I saw my grandfather take care of his family and his wife, my grandmother. Yes, my dad wasn’t as much around when we were baby and toddlers but he chose to change his hours to make sure he was home before 5pm right before year 3.

My mother was at work most of my childhood, can be a very negative person, doesn’t like being wrong, and thinks if she wouldn’t want to do something, others wouldn’t want to do it either. Being around her was like being around a bully as a child/teen. She is much better now but I still can only tolerate her attitude/demeanour in small doses. She does love her grandchildren and is more hands-on and way less critical as a grandparent than she was as a mother to me.

My dad sees his granddaughter, my niece every month for days and sometimes a week. He has taken her alone on flights, driven halfway to pick her up (my sister lives 10 hours away from my parents), takes care of her while my sister works. My niece is only 20 months old. She calls him paw paw and he talks to her via video chat almost daily.

He doesn’t hesitate to step in because he was raised that way and tbh, he did have five sisters and had caring responsibilities with his disabled brother as a teen so he wasn’t new to taking care of others.

I never expected the level of childcare my parents had with my sister and I from them or my own in-laws. The most I expected was maybe a few times a year since both seem so keen on it. My parents do when they visit once a year. DH handles his parents and if they offer to help in some way I don’t stop them since we only see them a handful of times a year. Plus, since they have given SIL 14 years of childcare 3-5 days a week, and complain about it the 2x a year they visit us for years, I wouldn’t dare ask for anything anyway.

There’s a reason the birth rate is falling

I don’t want to be that person but our school has the probably unusual situation of having a large number of grandparents collecting and as many of them are grandads on their own (as in the couple isn’t collecting). Tbh I feel sorry for them all (the men and women)- I can’t imagine running around after a child in 30 years time!!!

My Dad has always done loads for my kids, probably more than my mum who has a very active social life!

I wouldn’t have left either of my in-laws in charge of my kids, and only had my dad left by the time I had kids. I happily left them with him, and he changed nappies and took them to the loo.

I totally agree that that is the norm.

Some posters have much higher expectations of their mothers and mothers in law even than they do of the father of their children let alone the grandfathers!

As it happens, out of the four grandparents my children have (all in good health), my dad is the only one who is both able and willing to care for them at all. He offers to do the occasional day during school holidays.

But I also agree generally that grandparents aren't obliged to do childcare. I would love a night off a couple of times a year but I don't expect it. There's another thread running full of people saying that a MIL who doesn't do chores and babysit doesn't deserve to come round for a cup of tea to see her grandchildren and I just don't get that POV. When did relationships get so transactionally?

I agree. Equally, women shouldn't be the ones always responsible for elder care either. They are often already raising their own children and are always expected to be the ones running around after elderly relatives, its never the men who are asked.

I think it totally depends on people’s own childhood experiences. My dad was a stay at home dad and my mum worked - so now he does more day to day with my children. As a child, most of my friends parent’s mums were the main caregiver so I can imagine this would continue now they’re grandparents. I think this will change in coming generations as childcare is ideally split more equally.

I agree op.
You see threads berating the mil for not offering help whilst no mention of fil not helping.
I know working women who rely on their mothers to help out. Even when their father isn’t working it’s still their mother who does the grunt work.
It’s strange that these same women know how hard it is and often complain about their own dh not pulling his weight.
Of course you will get posters saying the opposite but in general I think it’s women who bare the brunt.

yep GD is basically a spare part tha does a bit of holding but if GM doesn’t offer weekly childcare she’s a selfish cow. And you’ll leave her to rot and die should she need help in her old age.

then in the same breath women complain about always being the default parent and the mental load while STILL enforcing that burden and expectation on elderly mothers and MILs without a hint of irony.

I think you have a point. Whilst I do know plenty of involved grandads, I see plenty doing pick up I've never heard anyone complaining about grandad not helping. Those complaints are always reserved for women.

My dad is as hands on as he has time for. He still works full time whereas my mum doesn’t work (hasn’t since I left primary school). She looks after my DS (and previously DDs 1 and 2) whilst DH and I work. If it’s childcare at the weekend, my dad is equally as involved if my mum is there and has the children on his own if she’s not. He regularly picks up DD1 from clubs to bring her home because he enjoys the time with her.

PIL live further away so FIL babysits as much as MIL as they usually do it together.

I think there was a huge expectation that women were responsible for the children when DH and I were growing up so our dads have had to learn a lot of it with grandchildren (FIL especially). My dad was always a hands on dad in comparison but not as much as my DH is now. Expectations are starting to shift and DH is required to parent just as much as me if for no other reason that we both work full time.

Or all the moaning that the 70yo is only doing ad hoc baby sitting when asked but not offering childcare. This is classed as not helping?! Maybe they’re tired???

we are having babies older and older late 30s and 40s. So they are not going to have the same capacity as your old gps who were 50!!

You care and support you parents because they cared for and supported YOU. If you want. Not because they do childcare for your children.