to think expectations of grandfathers vs grandmothers are wildly uneven even among women?

[HazelMember]

I keep noticing how little is expected of grandfathers when it comes to childcare compared to grandmothers and a lot of the pressure seems to come from other women as well.

Grandfathers can occasionally “babysit”, take a child out once in a while, or simply not mess things up, and they’re praised for being involved and helpful. The bar feels incredibly low.

Meanwhile grandmothers are often expected to provide regular childcare, know routines, remember appointments, cook, clean, offer emotional support and be constantly available. If they don’t step up, there’s often judgement.

I’ve seen comments along the lines of how a woman had loads of help from her own mum, so it’s unfair that she now won’t look after her grandchildren as if that automatically obliges her. People stay silent about the men.

What strikes me is how normalised this is, even among women who otherwise recognise how unequal childcare expectations are. The assumption still seems to be that women will do the caring, even a generation later, while men get a pass.

Same generation. Same family role. Completely different expectations.

AIBU to think this double standard is outdated and unfair?

My maternal grandfather never looked after any of his grandchildren - ever. My maternal grandmother did occasionally. However, as my DM was very young g when she had her children, both grandparents were only in their 40s when we were born so still worked full time. My parents didn’t live nearby when our Dc were young.
When we had our children, it was our grandmother, who was then in her 70s, who would help us with the children. Grandma would get 2 busses up to my house every week to do all my ironing and cleaning. She provided practical support but less so with childcare.
Once retired, and living closer, my DF would be the ‘dad taxi’ for his older teen grandchildren and would look after the younger ones in an emergency. When we’d phone him to ask, he’d always start his answer with ‘Bloody hell!’ But he’d be round straight away with sweets, cans of Coke and a plan of what to do for the day. It’s a measure of him as a grandfather to see just how much his grandchildren loved him - nothing to do with how many nappies he changed. I’m glad my DDs remember him with such fondness, he made them very very happy and loved them immensely.

It’s not just expectations it’s inclination. Many men don’t want / aren’t bothered about having children but go along with it for their wives. They’re certainly not going to give up their retirement hobby time to become child-carers!

I’ve known grandparents where this is explicitly the case. The woman volunteers to provide regular days of childcare because she wants to. The man says ‘that’s your choice not mine, I won’t be taking part’ and carries on playing golf etc. Only really works if he has an out of the home hobby to escape to, or a study / attic / den to hide in.

But fine, it’s a classic decent boundary of not accepting ‘being volunteered’ by someone else and refusing to be inconvenienced by them inviting their own guests round. Exactly what women on here are advised to do when their husband makes presumptuous social commitments. Their guest, they do the work, stay out of it.

The same grandfathers can be great at family gatherings, being a grandfather to the extent they deem right.

They just don’t see childcare as anything to do with them. Same goes for plenty of working dads still.

You’re not wrong, there are exceptions but generally the expectations are all on women.

Even with the current generation there is thread after thread on here from women asking for advice on applying for flexible, part time working in their current job as the child’s fathers job is too ‘important’ ‘breadwinner’ ‘inflexible’ to consider him contributing to childcare. Then said women becoming angry at their employer if their request isn’t fully granted.

How can you offer care for your parents when you have a full time job and your own children to look after? I did not physically have any time to be a "carer" for my parents. I supported them but there was no way I could have been their carer. This is no different to the people saying they are working into retirement and dont have the time to offer childcare. That goes for elder care too!

My parents (in their late seventies) my mum did kids and dad worked. So when it came to being grandparents same applied. But dhs parents (mid sixties ) both are completely hands on and will have DS solo.

I think it’s because (generally speaking) all of us that are 35+ find that our dads were already ruined by never being expected to do ‘women’s stuff’ such as childcare.
My sons will do as much as my daughters when they have children and grandchildren and I believe it will be the norm.

Yes, I think that's a huge factor. I'm in my 40s and my dad did basically no childcare - my mum was a SAHM, he worked long hours.

Whereas now, my partner has always looked after our child fairly equally (notwithstanding mat leave and that I work one day less), and he'd be perfectly capable of looking after a baby/young child.

I don't think men being dead explains why so few grandfathers are involved in childcare unlike grandmothers.

The expectation does not exist for them like it does for women.

There is a gendered division in the way my parents are involved in supporting child care for my DD. And I think it's fairly easy to see how it comes from gender divides from 20/30 years ago.

DM was a housewife when us kids were little, then part time when we were both in school. DF worked full time in manufacturing.

DM retired when my DD was born 10 years ago, partly to look after me and DD and partly because her job was contributing to arthritis. DF is still working now.

DM does a couple of school pick ups a week and DD has tea with grandparents once a week. DM does more of childcare with DD, than DF.

But DF takes every opportunity to spend time with DD too. They work on art projects together. He joins in with friday school pick up because he finishes work early on a Friday. He also will offer to drive us all if both our families are going same location. Will offer to help with any house project.

So yes, on one hand very stereotypical. However, unlike what others are saying here I don't feel like DM is more interested or willing than DF to be involved with grandkids. She is more physically available. DF adores DD. I think once DF finally retires they will do all of the childcare together.

There is a life beyond MN.

I am sure women do not think their own fathers are paedophiles. They just want their mum to do the childcare because of their expectations that is a woman's role.

They just don’t see childcare as anything to do with them. Same goes for plenty of working dads still.

Women then rope in other women to pick up the slack that men refuse and usually older women get burdened even more (I am sure some grandmothers love it).

I think once DF finally retires they will do all of the childcare together.

The type of childcare they do will vary. Grandmothers tend to do the drudgery while grandfathers do the easier stuff.

I voted yabu because I think you're giving these men a free pass by blaming the problem on our (younger women's) "expectations". It's blaming women, again, for men not stepping up.

Fwiw my FIL barely ever changed a nappy when his three kids grew up, and was out all day Saturday watching the football leaving his wife alone with three under 5s (he told me).

Whereas now, when PILs visit and babysit, they are equally hands-on. (They have to be, because my two can be a handful so they man-mark one child each!)

However, he worked full time then and is retired now, and my MIL was very part time, basically SAHM.

Grandads can step up if they want to, they shouldn't wait for "expectations".

This sounds so passive. Dads were ruined like they had no choice. These dumb men kept fathering children but then had no clue how to look after them. Never mind, a woman somewhere will do it.

I have actually found it fascinating to see my dad become a grandpa. He did not really get a chance to parent me due to his career. I appreciate it was partly choice, but seeing him now with his granddaughter, he is obsessed and so excited to do everything with her. My parents are very much functioning as a team with her, in a way they did not as parents. I think they are genuinely enjoying the “chore” aspects of caring for her so share them well, possibly my dad doing more tbh.

And on the in-laws side, my father-in-law is the default parent and is also the default grandparent.

What should we be except "passive" if grandads don't step up with childcare? We should force them, like it's our fault? No, it's not our responsibility. It's the grandad's loss.

I think your POV on where lies the blame is very off.

It always puzzles me when I read posts going on about how grandmothers 'should' help with their dgcs when there doesn't seem to be the same expectations on grandfathers.
My dad, was the eldest in a large family and was expected to help with his younger siblings. Same applies to FIL. This was during WW2! When they became fathers, it was natural for them to help with their own dcs. Even to the extent of being present at the births - highly unusual in the 1850's and 1960's! For various reasons, they both had some care of their dcs for extended times and guess what? They coped. Because DH and I had seen our fathers taking on care of us and our siblings, it was normal for us that DH would do the same with our dc's. My DH probably changed as many nappies as I did, he fed them and cared for them when I worked. Our own D's is the same with his children. And, because I am still working but DH is retired, guess who does the bulk of the childcare for our dgcs whilst our ds and dil are at work? And has done since they were under six months old. Oldest dgc is now almost 8.
For me, I think it's about showing the example of a fully engaged father, and children growing up in a home where it is considered normal, not unusual or something to be 'grateful' for.

But it is ok to force grandmothers to do the care? So many older women feel pressurised into doing the care while men get left alone because they can't be forced.

I know. I blame the men.

It’s because people, especially on here, assume every man is a pervert. Which is totally wrong.

Of course….

Yanbu in somw ways but yabu in others.

the bar was so low then.
If they were crap at 30 how are they going to be great at 60/70.
There is no way I would have felt my babies were safe (like basic safety) with my DF or FIL.
Neither had a fucking clue.
Mil wasnt much better either as she didnt actually raise either of her children.

anecdotally If you compare how good you'd expect ypur db to be bs your DF id say you'd expect your DB to be better.

As a society we now expect more of men now and that it age related.

The bar is still pretty low for men imo.

I also dont know anyone in my circle "forcing" anyone to provide care but given the insane costs of childcare it wouldn't surprise me if there was pressure.

With 2 kids in childcare and no gov subsidy (over 100k) one day child care per week saves 800-950 net income per month, 2 days is the same as monthly mortgages for many.

I have zero help and pay approx 5k net per month. Its a lot of money...

No, that's quite clearly not OK either. Such strange whataboutery.

OK to answer your question more fully - if younger women pressure their mums and MILs to do childcare (and I've never seen this in my circles but I don't doubt it can happen), the younger woman is obviously unreasonable.

If grandads don't step up, the younger woman is not to blame, and op is BU to apportion some blame on them for being "passive" about that.

ummm you know that generations of me being useless isn’t my fault personally. You seem really passive aggressive and quite odd about this?