to think expectations of grandfathers vs grandmothers are wildly uneven even among women?

[HazelMember]

I keep noticing how little is expected of grandfathers when it comes to childcare compared to grandmothers and a lot of the pressure seems to come from other women as well.

Grandfathers can occasionally “babysit”, take a child out once in a while, or simply not mess things up, and they’re praised for being involved and helpful. The bar feels incredibly low.

Meanwhile grandmothers are often expected to provide regular childcare, know routines, remember appointments, cook, clean, offer emotional support and be constantly available. If they don’t step up, there’s often judgement.

I’ve seen comments along the lines of how a woman had loads of help from her own mum, so it’s unfair that she now won’t look after her grandchildren as if that automatically obliges her. People stay silent about the men.

What strikes me is how normalised this is, even among women who otherwise recognise how unequal childcare expectations are. The assumption still seems to be that women will do the caring, even a generation later, while men get a pass.

Same generation. Same family role. Completely different expectations.

AIBU to think this double standard is outdated and unfair?

I think generally you’re probably not wrong however my DDad does lots for my son and will happily take him to appointments etc. He always has even when he was a toddler etc. Not sure if it makes a difference but he’s not from the UK.

You're going to get quite a few 'exceptions to the rule' anecdotes now, but YANBU.

Then again, so many MNetters are unhappy with male nursery staff changing their kid's nappies or helping them in the toilet, and I'm not sure if they'd feel differently about FIL to be honest.

it is double standard

but partially, it has to do with the mistrust of a male in charge of a young child.
Half the posters on here would faint at the idea of a leaving a young child to a MAN- their FIL being seen as a potential abuser.

it really does not help

grandmothers are often expected to provide regular childcare, know routines, remember appointments, cook, clean, offer emotional support and be constantly available.
not sure that's strictly true, only for some entitled people.

Probably depends on your own childhood memories.

My Mum was the one who either didn't work or worked part-time so did the majority of child care and housework. My Dad was always at work or working overtime.

When it came to Grandchildren, my Mum was just more natural around young kids and my Dad didn't really know what to do with them. Even with Great-Grand children he's still too scared to hold a newborn in case they break.

Vaguely remember my Dad looking after my baby niece and had to ask 12 year old me for help with changing her nappy 😆.

Yes, I've noticed this too, and been surprised by it given younger women are typically much more committed to the idea of equality in parenting for their own generation.
I've concluded that unfortunately we still have some way to go before older women are not boxed into stereotypes of good granny, self sacrificing, fulfilled by continuing to be of use to others, second to the more important people (men and young women); and bad selfish granny, who has the affrontery to want a bit of a rest from childcare or a life for herself.
I think much of it stems from the continued failure of men to fully step up and young women expecting older women to fill the gap by supporting them. Which of course, many of us do because we want better for our daughters. But on a societal level I'm not sure it's progress.

Interesting. And people advised on here when struggling in a relationship with or without young DC to ‘go and stay at your mums’. Never dads!

I don’t think it’s that surprising. We’re not that far removed from a generation where it was incredibly common and largely expected for men to be providers and women to do childcare and housework. Some of those men may also have been very involved and hands-on fathers, but it certainly wasn’t the standard and I imagine many who are parents to young children now (particularly if they themselves are in their late thirties and forties and their parents 70+) keenly remember having a dad who was a bit useless with or disengaged from childcare, and aren’t likely to look to him first when it comes to actual care of his grandchildren.

I have noticed this. The dads don't have to do anything.

Someone will come rushing in to say their dad looked after their newborn until the child was 18😂

When it came to Grandchildren, my Mum was just more natural around young kids and my Dad didn't really know what to do with them.

I hear this about men too. These man can apparently father numerous children but have no clue how to look after them. Bizarre!

Nothing should be expected of either grandparent, they already took care of and raised their children, they aren't also responsible for raising their children's children.

Agree but women get judged again and again if they choose not to provide childcare. Grandmothers often even get asked are you giving up work to look after the grandchildren whereas men rarely get asked that.

I doubt my dad ever changed my nappies, sadly hes not going to start with my kids. He's involved in her own way then retreats behind a paper, much like my FIL. I'd hope the next generation will be more invited

Men do mostly what they want and women hold things together

These men continue to get away with looking after their own children and grandchildren while the burden becomes heavier and heavier on women.

It is accepted when men don't bother while some women criticise older women for not helping.

My lovely Daddy was the most brilliant Grandpa, whereas my mother was a grumpy cow.

Yes, I think this is still mostly the case.

I hope things will start to change. My dad did offer to help when I was pregnant with my first but he didn’t even realise you could get disposable nappies for newborns 😂. He had never changed a nappy in his life. He literally would not have known what to do with a baby/toddler. It would not have been safe to ask him. My husband is an amazing dad though, and will make a fantastic very hands on grandad.

That is so sad how these men can father children and then are dumb as how to look after them.

My father worked long hours but he still could feed his children, bathe them do whatever was needed. That was many many decades ago.

I think things are shifting a little but expectations on women are still much higher. My mum and her second husband both cared equally for a grandchild, but he admitted that he wasn't so great first time around with his own children, he made up for it with being a very active grandpa prepared to do proper childcare regularly.

I've prepared my children that I won't be able to do regular childcare though if they have children as it was hard enough first time around and I don't think I can do a second. I would help as much as I can, probably by throwing money at the situation and the odd bit of babysitting.

You are right, older men who even show the slightest bit of interest in their grandchildren are designated as 'brilliant' whereas grandmas who are 'only' doing the odd bit of childcare, way more than the grandpas, are judged much more harshly as could do more.

I think the expectations are different simply because it goes unacknowledged that a lot of people don’t have grandfathers around. Perhaps their own dads walked out and they just don’t have a relationship with them. Or in our case, they’re dead. My dad died when I was 18, dh’s when he was 15. So our dc have never had a grandad. When I talk about family support, it’s always about our mums (or more realistically, the lack of it). But not because I think it’s women who should be doing all the supporting. Just our dads have been dead since we were still children.

That said, my grandad played a huge role in my life. He did lots with me as a child, literally all the school runs, was there with my granny doing school holiday childcare, building stuff with me, teaching me how to fix things in the house, taking me on holiday. He was a legend.

You are not wrong.

My FIL never even changed his own children's nappies. He literally went and found another woman to do it when it had to be done and MIL wasn't there. He also doesn't cook.

My df didn't see the need to bring a 2nd car when we could just hold baby in our arms.

Yeah, we didn’t exactly feel comfortable leaving either of the grandfather's to babysit until the children were a lot older.

Hopefully dh's generation will be a lot more capable grandparents when it comes to babies.

Hopefully dh's generation will be a lot more capable grandparents when it comes to babies.

Going by the vast number of MNers with partners who only “help”, or do virtually no childcare, and who have exes who have simply disappeared from their DC’s lives, I don’t hold out a lot of hope tbh. A lot of these men probably didn’t particularly want their own children, I can’t see them feeling much differently about grandchildren.

Our shit grandparents are shit, and our brilliant ones are brilliant.
It was the same when I was a child.

Ive never had the experience with my grandfather, father or husband that men are expected to do less, or in practice do less/ do less well.

You can't have it both ways. According to a lot of people on here, all men are paedophiles until proven otherwise. I'm not exaggerating, just check out any thread about male nursery workers. Personally, I don't think that either grandparent should be expected to provide much in the way of care; they've done their stint. The exception to that being if they expect a lot of care when they become old. It's not fair to refuse to help out with grandkids at all, and then expect your kids to spend their late middle age looking after you.

🙄