Women and anyone with a cervix

[Zillyzillyzillymouse]

Women and anyone with a cervix is written in my weekly magazine. What absolute rubbish is this? It gives me the rage.

And a lot of non cis men may believe they are women so it includes them.

I was actually hoping that @DoubleShotEspressox would reply, as that's whose comment I was responding to, but as you've stuck your two penn'orth in I'll say that I no longer have a cervix. Is that ok?

People do tend to stick their pennies in on open message boards.

And yes, its perfectly okay to say you no longer have a cervix, although the expansion on your original statement does make it rather clear that you were hoping to gotcha @DoubleShotEspressox with one of the gender debate's most overused and fallacious arguments which hinges around the pretence that those who state that only women have a cervix automatically exclude those who have had them removed from womanhood.

What was the article about? Was it a health matter than could affect a biological woman, who identifies as a transman, who doesn't have a cervix? If so it's still isn't inclusive language. Just to put another cat among the pigeons.

@Floatlikeafeather2I don’t know why you’re being purposely facetious when you’re a woman - and I’m advocating for safe spaces for women and to stop the erasure of women in society. For whatever reason you, as a woman, had to have your cervix removed, I’m sorry. But AS A WOMAN you HAD a cervix. As only women can have them?! I don’t understand what is difficult to grasp with that???

As@HorrorAndHaagenDazspointed out - there’s no gotcha moment. It’s a statement of fact. I am right. It’s been argued in law.

Men cannot be women. There is no need for all this “inclusive language” bollocks. Men do not need to have a cervical screen.

We have proof of tribes going back into ancient times that had designations for more than 2 genders - with names for men who live as women or women who live as men for example.

However, whatever the historical culture - these persons were not termed the gender they identified as.

Define ‘women who live as men’ and ‘men who live as women’. How does one do that? What proof? It’s nonsense straight out of the TRA handbook.

I’ve already given an example in a previous post.

There are a lot of people who don’t understand the importance of eg a smear test for a vast number of reasons, so the more that can be done to target everyone the better.

There are definitely people who don’t understand what healthcare they still need as trans people.

Then they can be told they can’t have that healthcare as they don’t need it but I think better than the other way around, ie people being missed.

Which post? MN doesn't give the opportunity to just look at one person's posts so can you please give an example of a caveman 'living as a woman'.

Yes lots of people don't understand the importance of smear tests, - every single one of those people is a woman.

If women are making body modifications because they no longer want to be women then it is the duty of healthcare providers to inform them that they still need to have smear tests. Same with men who identify as trans women and prostate exams. People who do not have the ability to understand these things surely cannot have capacity to consent to such procedures.

The world has gone mad, truly it has. No one can change sex.

So why gets the fun job of telling these men they’re not women? I mean, if you’re going to use “inclusive language” and respecting people’s identities , surely you’d be including non cis men in the word woman as that’s how they identify?

They can be told, then the person telling them that loses their job. Then it is 2-3 years of tribunals.

Yay.

That’s great. So that gives us the precedent of men, whichever gender they express, being treated as men then?

That gives us a history of gender non-conformity - but one which never includes redesignating the gender of the person. They are simply given a separate label.

Do they’re still men, just expressing themselves differently. Just like the “transpeople” of today.

Thanks. I think we need to be clear about the balance here between the rights of women and those of the trans community. I have absolutely no problem in using requested pronouns and the language here is not concerning to me. Some people will strongly identify as male when they were born female. What we need to be clear on is that a female changing area should be for biological women only and that in certain limited other cases such as personal care, rape support and in some cases prisons should be based on biological sex. There is a reasonable path here and the sooner we get clear guidance, the better.

Or we could just send a clear message to men that they are not age never will be women and therefore need to stay out of all female spaces. And vice versa for women who claim a trans identity.

Native American tribes have a long history of formally acknowledging gender non-conformity. Bearing in mind Native American history stretches back 30,000 years.

Tribes such as the Lakota, Navajo, Crow etc have different names and concepts of gender non-conformist roles. The Paiutes had “Tudayap” which referred to people who dressed like the other sex. The “Winkte” in the Lakota tribe were men who “want to be like women”.

This has been hijacked by the trans community as “two spirit” concept which is modern, spurious & “Pretendian” imo.

What's 'inclusive' about it?

If you have a cervix you are female

So, a mastectomy then?

Thanks. I do believe that some men and women were born into a body that they just do not belong in. I also believe that some people do not really identify as any particular sex. I am now approaching sixty and this is not new, it has always been the case in my lifetime. I want to be supportive to these people as far as I can. I am not sure that just continually saying you are a man/woman get over it gets us very far in this debate.

So if these people were “born in the wrong body” then that is for them to get help with. It does not mean they get to claim to be the opposite sex or demand others go along with their delusions. Would you go along with an anorexic saying they were fat?

Thanks. I do believe that some men and women were born into a body that they just do not belong in

What does that even mean? What happened? Where is the body they do belong in?