How much sympathy would you have for a colleague in this situation?

[Bloopbloopbleep]

Colleague returned from maternity leave around a year ago.
Sleep deprivation still an issue and regularly at work having not slept. No SEN, just a kid who doesn't like to sleep.
Doing a fair job but not as good as pre-mat leave. More forgetful and less energetic but no major balls have been dropped yet.
If you were a colleague of this person, how much sympathy would you have and how much would they just annoy you?

You poor thing! I went through it with a colicky baby and it was hell.

You've said that you are at least performing to an average level, so I would cut yourself some slack, look after yourself as much as you can, and maybe try to get some help with the sleep issue. It took a long time before my baby was diagnosed with gastro problems and treated. I'm not sure how I survived that long to be honest!

A year's maternity leave, even followed by a year or so of less than stellar performance, is actually a tiny proportion of your entire working life. Your company are still getting overall great value from you. Try not to stress about it and take care of yourself. This too shall pass.

So you are doing your job, possibly not the extras which build to a promotion but not under performing in anyway?

Two of mine were non sleepers, it went on for years. Neither show any sign of SEN then or as adults - they just didn’t sleep. My youngest brother was the same.

My thoughts on a member of staff experiencing this would be to ask if they needs some variation/flexibility in contract for a while and privately I’d be wondering what the baby’s father was doing. Why is he picking up some of the nights? I could not have got through if all the nights had been on me for years on end (well not without paying for a night nanny!)

"more forgetful and less energetic" - this could be people at all sorts of stages of life. Does your workplace have a menopause policy? Because more forgetful and less energetic sounds like a lot of women I know who are also really struggling with sleep. It also sounds like people I know who have been bereaved or are caring for an older relative or are going through a health situation which isn't maternity related and doesn't require sick leave. No balls are being dropped so what's the problem?

I'm more forgetful these days but rather than wait for things to go wrong, I've talked with my boss about what's useful to have in place. This includes more regular catch ups, a more structured project meeting, a shared calendar etc.

Much in the same way that the social model of disability focuses on the barriers and how you can address the barriers, why can't you look at what could be put in place to support this colleague? To give them more confidence. From the tone of your post I'd imagine the colleague has noticed you noticing and if she's anything like me will have been stressing and worrying about how awful everyone thinks she is and how undervalued she is and pointless she is and how much of a failure she feels for not bouncing back into the office with all the energy she had pre children.

It's not just about cutting her some slack, it's about asking what she needs in place to do her best work which is within the organisation's power. Is this more flexible hours, is it something more structured, is it having a notetaker, whatever. Stop thinking sympathy and empathy because it sounds like you already have neither and start thinking about support and solutions.

I’d feel sympathy for them. Sleep deprivation really is a killer. Some babies just don’t like to sleep.

Ds1 was sleeping through my 12 weeks. Ds2 is 2 next month and wakes 5 times a night still. Been up since 4am this morning with him. Tried cosleeping, now bought him a floor double bed and still no improvement.

One thing you could check would be to see if his tonsils are enlarged. Ds2 had huge ones and ENT said this is most likely causing his bad sleep. Might be something to look into.

Sending hugs and solidarity!

Sounds like you’re doing really well, OP! I’ve been in your shoes, as have many others on Mumsnet, I’m sure, and know how tough it is.

If people ask if you’ve been kept awake, just smile and say something generic like ‘same old, same old!’ or ‘haha, I need my coffee today for sure!’ but say it cheerfully and then quickly move the conversation along. No need to lie or pretend you’re rested if you aren’t, but no need to discuss it either.

They will only get annoyed if you moan loads (although it doesn’t sound as though you’re a moaner!).

By the way, if you ever DO drop a ball, remember that you’re only human and mistakes happen far more than you realise - you just don’t hear about them as people don’t talk about it much. When my kids were young and I felt I was underperforming compared to my usual performance, I always used to remind myself that I was unlikely to be fired (it’s actually really hard to fire someone unless they are practically deliberate in their incompetence), so I just tried to relax a bit and learn to ride the wave of balancing parenthood with work!

Remember you’re not doing LESS than before, you’re doing an awful lot more - as you’ve working a dayshift at work and then a full night shift at home. I’d say that’s Superwoman skills! :-)

ps this definitely won’t last forever. You WILL sleep again

Awww, I would have lots of sympathy, you are in the trenches with small kids, esp if they are poor sleepers. I have seen lots of colleagues go through periods of more time absent and less focused on their work when kids are small cos they pick up bugs from their kids and are exhausted and worn-down and then before you know it they are through the worst of it, back firing on all cylinders and ready to support the next colleague going through it, it’s just the way of things.

If you're toddler is only sleeping 1-2 hrs in 50 hours and you're doing nothing then I'd think you're a pretty negligent parent. They must be insanely overtired, there's either something drastically wrong with your parenting or a neurological issue. Even the worst sleepers will sleep a few hours a night.

Or I'd think you're over exaggerating and you're tired and need to get over it.

I’d have a tonne of sympathy and empathy, but would think that you need to more proactively address the situation, particularly if you have a partner who can take their shifts. Getting 1-2 hours in 50 hours needs to change, or there could be serious consequences such as a car accident. My first child was a horrendous sleeper, and both DH and I were absolute zombies. Even sharing it was hard. He did turn out to have ADHD though, so I wouldn’t rule out there being some SEN at play.

Are you a single parent? If not is your partner taking it in turns so that you are getting some sleep?

Oh gosh no, they sleep more than that- they just need a lot of support to stay asleep. No other parent and no support. Have tried literally everything (please no sleep tips - this isn't about this!!!) And I know it will get better as they do very occasionally sleep for longer stretches. This is very much what I signed up for so I am not complaining! Im just wondering if my looking tired/yawning/coffee and pro plus intake annoys anybody

To be honest I don’t really care what’s going on with people’s private life at work as long as it doesn’t impact me. My colleagues are my colleagues, not my friends. I also know any company I work for doesn’t care about me either, they care about managing me correctly so I can’t get them done for unfair dismissal if they had to sack me due to performance issues. That may come across as sympathy but it’s making sure they cover their backs.

I work in a role where I know this is true.

Op is the colleague with the baby. She's talking about herself.

Sympathy from me honey. They use sleep deprivation as a form of torture for a reason.
It will get easier though x

Would feel really sorry for you, lack of sleep is a killer.

If the worst is you aren't going over and above then nobody can complain. You are meeting your deadlines and doing what's needed.

Hope you manage to get sorted with sleep soon. Horrible being tired all the time.

Reciprocal is good, as well as people having a choice but when colleague does nothing and others dont have a choice that is not fair, not saying the op is like this

Massive sympathy. I used to go to work running on empty for years due to lack of sleep. Working in a nursery I did have to kind of suck it up though because I obviously needed to be on the ball.
They did used to let me finish early if enough children had gone home but it didn't really help as DS still didn't sleep.
I can't believe the amount of posters who are annoyed about it. Try putting yourself in the shoes of the person who hasn't slept properly for 5 years (I appreciate it's not usually as long as that). Believe me they'd love to get a good night's sleep too.

I'd wonder if the colleague has a partner, and if so, why she doesn't appear rested half of the days she is at work.

I have no idea why you would even remotely care about how others perceive you. When I was sleep deprived, I couldn't give a hoot what anyone thought. I was doing my best and that's what counted back then

I don't have young children, and when I did they were good sleepers but honestly, some of you really lack basic empathy. Those of us who work are indeed paid to do jobs, but we're also human beings and every single one of us will have a bad day (if we're lucky; year if we're not). You can have empathy for someone without picking up their workload or falling behind on your own. Imagine seeing someone having a shit time, struggling to keep on top of things, and actually saying (or typing) out loud "I have no sympathy". Jesus.

A good manager will have this organised properly so that no-one is negatively impacted.

You're massively overthinking this.

If I was your colleague... honestly, I wouldn't even have noticed any of this. You're turning up and doing your job to the required standard. Nobody at work is 'annoyed' because you can't get your kid to sleep. The chances of them noticing that you look tired are minimal, and if they have noticed they won't be 'annoyed' by it. Your appearance doesn't have any impact on them.

You're taking your own worries and anxieties about yourself and projecting them on to your colleagues. Not to sound callous here - I mean this to be reassuring - but your colleagues have their own lives and concerns and jobs and if they're not having to pick up your work or correct your mistakes, I guarantee you they aren't even thinking about whether you are less 'perky' than you were two years ago. It won't even be on their radar.

Most people on this site have been in her shoes. I think a bit of tolerance would be just fine.

If you’re meeting the demands of your job spec I’d pat yourself on the back and keep on keeping on. You’ve got a lot on your plate. Anyone with any empathy should be understanding especially given your field of work. People in the office who have children is part and parcel of life, they may face challenges that others don’t. I’m sure your DC will start sleeping better at some point and in the meantime I would only worry if someone addresses your performance relative to the job description (not your past performance), which by the sound of it isn’t affected.

"Doing a fair job but not as good as pre-mat leave. More forgetful and less energetic but no major balls have been dropped yet."

How could you possibly be annoyed about this? Just working at a decent level is superhuman in those sleep deprived months.

If you are doing the work you are paid to do and no-one is having to do extra work or be delayed in their work because of you, then they don't have a problem.

If you are not doing the work you are paid to do, some one is having to do extra work or is delayed in their work, because of you-then they do have a problem.

You going into work looking like "boiled shite" is nothing to do with anyone unless you are a model or a life coach.