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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the USA is on the verge of civil war?

257 replies

spitofyou · 19/01/2026 07:22

I was reading this morning about trump readying 1500 troops to deploy to Minnesota following the murder of Renee Good.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2026/01/18/trump-minnesota-insurrection-act/

If this goes through, that’s it right? The insurrection act means he can suspend elections, and the military will be fighting the American people.

AIBU to think it’s inevitable at this point? Trump will never back down.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Shakeoffyourchains · 20/01/2026 08:45

Khayker · 20/01/2026 00:03

They made her a tentative offer based on what she told them about her military history. They didn't make her a firm offer because she didn't complete and submit the vetting forms. She was never going to get a job with ICE unless she completed those vetting forms so she never had an actual job offer from DHS/ICE. She never followed through to the vetting stage, didn't get a job and didn't hear from them again.

You sure about that?

To think the USA is on the verge of civil war?
YourBlueShark · 20/01/2026 22:37

spitofyou · 19/01/2026 07:56

This is a good point. I don’t know how they’re just ignoring what’s going on.

We're not. We're protesting & marching daily across the country. We're forming nationwide walkouts. We're boycotting businesses like Target who support his administration. We're joining and helping to fund groups like the ACLU to sue ICE and every member of the Trump administration. We're writing and calling our representatives daily to invoke the 25th and pull him from office. Trump's supporters are very loud so it seems like there are far more of them than there are, especially once the bots on social media are mixed in, but we mostly HATE him and are working within all the resources to which we have access to get him the h* out of office and in prison. We're exhausted and frustrated and heartbroken for our country but we do want to avoid a violent Civil War. We have local groups to warn each other about ICE presence. I'm part of one that sends out an alert to hundreds of people if agents are spotted in our city and we go en masse to pressure them to leave. My city's mayor just signed an Executive Order stating that ICE agents cannot operate on any property owned by the city, whatsoever. We already worked with City Hall to add amendments to local safety laws prohibiting our city's police force from aiding ICE agents. We know it's still not enough, but we're not just ignoring what's happening, I promise. I know it looks insane to the rest of the world.

YourBlueShark · 20/01/2026 22:48

Heronwatcher · 19/01/2026 09:10

But don’t Trump and his cabal of MAGA lunatics still have quite a bit of support- the majority in fact?

If he was carrying on like this without the support of the majority of Americans I’d agree with you but the sad reality is that this is exactly what most Trump supporters wanted and if a few lefty protesters get shot in the meantime, either they don’t care or they will reframe it as the victim’s fault.

This gets confused often; they absolutely do not. Only ~31.8% of US voters voted for Trump. Another ~30.9% voted for Harris. About 36.1% did not vote at all. There has also been a large swathe of folks who have realized that Trump does not support their interests as they'd thought he would and are no longer supporting Trump/MAGA.

YourBlueShark · 20/01/2026 22:49

Fulmine · 19/01/2026 09:26

I wonder whether a point will come when the US military will say no - they won't go to war against Europe over Greenland, they won't back up ICE thugs, and they won't go to war against other Americans. At which point you're almost looking at a coup.

So hopeful for this!

YourBlueShark · 20/01/2026 22:59

NewsOfMidLevelPortent · 19/01/2026 14:35

Sometimes I wonder what world other people are living in. Strange how we can have such vastly differing interpretations of the same situation, though I suppose it's not so surprising, given that we're likely looking at different news sources, following different accounts, and so on.

There are a handful of, well, nuts who are obsessed with protesting anything and everything. Then there are some who are being paid to protest. These are the people you see on the streets. The average person is not about to start a war because of ICE working to deport people here illegally. The average person won't lose sleep (much less start a civil war) because a few people are injured or killed as a result of frankly stupid behaviour when dealing with ICE. The average person is also not remotely worried that elections won't happen as and when they are scheduled.

I'm an American in a coastal New England city in the US; pretty much everyone I know is extremely worried about everything you just listed. No one is being paid to protest. The protesters are not all nuts. They're regular, educated, employed, successful people with families. We're absolutely losing sleep over ICE. We're losing sleep over Greenland. We're losing sleep over the potential that we won't have midterm elections in 2026. No one thinks it's ok for ICE agents to kill people or that it's a result of the victims' behavior. I understand that maybe this isn't getting communicated across social media or through the news, but none of this is ok and we're absolutely losing sleep over it.

DdraigGoch · 20/01/2026 23:14

No one thinks it's ok for ICE agents to kill people or that it's a result of the victims' behavior

@YourBlueShark I'm sure that you and your friends don't but it isn't true to say that no one does. We've seen plenty of minimisation and victim-blaming on these very boards, never mind what the administration have said (and we all know that there are millions of Americans who believe every word Fox "News" tells them).

PeachOctopus · 20/01/2026 23:25

DdraigGoch · 19/01/2026 22:36

They are attacking US citizens, green card holders, and those with a visa. No point saying "you'll be let go" if that's only after you are battered and bruised, and several miles (or worse) away.

2009–Obama’s first year in office—over 297,000 people were detained by ICE and deported. Only 39% (THIRTY-NINE PERCENT) of them had criminal records.
Obamas ice had over 50 illegals die from neglect. They also wrongfully detained a us citizen for OVER 3 years.

Trump has said 60% of those picked up have criminal charges. The difference is that some Democrat states will not allow ICE to pick up criminals from courthouses now, so they have to track them down and pick them up from the urban areas.

MissConductUS · 21/01/2026 10:52

2009–Obama’s first year in office—over 297,000 people were detained by ICE and deported. Only 39% (THIRTY-NINE PERCENT) of them had criminal records.

Possibly correct (a source would be nice). But the other 61% were in the country illegally - they overstayed a tourist visa, didn't show up for an asylum hearing while in the country illegally, had been deported before but returned, didn't obey an earlier deportation order, etc. Those are all violations of the law and are valid grounds for deportation.

There are millions of people who follow the rules, come to the US legally, and become lawful permanent residents or full citizens. We, as a country, have the right to impose an immigration process that can't simply be ignored.

DdraigGoch · 21/01/2026 23:28

PeachOctopus · 20/01/2026 23:25

2009–Obama’s first year in office—over 297,000 people were detained by ICE and deported. Only 39% (THIRTY-NINE PERCENT) of them had criminal records.
Obamas ice had over 50 illegals die from neglect. They also wrongfully detained a us citizen for OVER 3 years.

Trump has said 60% of those picked up have criminal charges. The difference is that some Democrat states will not allow ICE to pick up criminals from courthouses now, so they have to track them down and pick them up from the urban areas.

Trump said it so it must be true...

God, some people will believe anything so long as Fox told them to believe it.

DdraigGoch · 22/01/2026 01:29

Ok, who's going to defend this one then?

Someone pinned to the ground poses absolutely no risk to the agents. So why are they spraying a chemical irritant right into their face?

These ICE agents are just common or garden thugs who enjoy inflicting violence on the public.

To think the USA is on the verge of civil war?
Spooky2000 · 22/01/2026 02:17

I put yabu because I don't think the Americans outside of the usual trump fanatics and other associated red necks will actually join in and do something!

I don't understand how or why a hit hasn't been taken out on him and Putin to kill them off but make it look like natural causes. Is there an international agreement on not killing off the leaders/despot's or something??

eurochick · 22/01/2026 08:29

MissConductUS · 19/01/2026 23:45

Yank here. This is the most sensible comment on an otherwise daft thread.

I’ve been on MN for ten years and see these hysterical “the U.S. is about to have a civil war” threads at least a few times a year. It hasn’t happened yet. It hasn’t happened in 164 years. It’s not going to happen now.

i think that the misperception comes from Brits who don’t understand American history, culture or civic institutions. I can see how it might look odd from the outside, but lord, you all are quick to jump to wild conclusions.

I hope you are right. In Europe we perhaps have a closer view on how quickly things can change. For example in 1991 I went on holiday with my parents to a place called Yugoslavia. It was opening up as a package holiday alternative to Greece and Spain. We had a typical holiday - reading by the pool, sightseeing, etc. Later that year the country descended into ethnic civil war with neighbour fighting neighbour. And then Russia decided to start a land war against its neighbour. These things can turn on a sixpence.

ExpectZeroContext · 22/01/2026 09:18

Civil war seems a bit over the top. We see countries suffering with prolonged economic and social tensions and civil war does not just break out like that.
Now, they do have a fair share of unaddressed problems that could potentially sow the seeds of skirmishes or clashes of some kind.

MissConductUS · 22/01/2026 10:47

eurochick · 22/01/2026 08:29

I hope you are right. In Europe we perhaps have a closer view on how quickly things can change. For example in 1991 I went on holiday with my parents to a place called Yugoslavia. It was opening up as a package holiday alternative to Greece and Spain. We had a typical holiday - reading by the pool, sightseeing, etc. Later that year the country descended into ethnic civil war with neighbour fighting neighbour. And then Russia decided to start a land war against its neighbour. These things can turn on a sixpence.

Those are good examples of how things can go off the rails, and I understand why some might be tempted to extrapolate those events to the U.S. But they're not really comparable. The U.S. is vastly larger than Yugoslavia and more complex and diverse in ethnic groups and subcultures. A Hispanic in Chicago will have no animus against a Creole in Louisiana, someone of Japanese descent in San Francisco, or an Orthodox Jew in New York.

We're also not at risk of a land invasion. The Canadian Army is tiny and wildly underfunded (almost as badly as the British Army), and the Mexican Army is similar and far more corrupt.

DdraigGoch · 24/01/2026 21:08

It's sure beginning to look like a civil war.

To think the USA is on the verge of civil war?
myotheraccountsa · 24/01/2026 21:25

OldGothsFadeToGrey · 19/01/2026 09:52

This post has been circling FB recently, I agree with both of you.

The Suicide Pact: What Happens the Moment We Touch Greenland…

By Brent Molnar

If the United States follows through on the threat to invade Greenland, we need to be crystal clear about what happens the next morning. This is not a real estate transaction or a routine military exercise. It is the geopolitical equivalent of pulling the pin on a grenade in a crowded elevator. The moment American boots hit the ground in Nuuk to seize territory from a fellow NATO member, the world as we know it ends. The consequences will not be temporary sanctions or angry letters. They will be total, permanent, and devastating.

The first domino to fall is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization itself. NATO is built on the sacred promise of Article 5, that an attack on one is an attack on all. If the U.S. attacks Denmark, we are not just breaking the treaty; we are triggering it against ourselves. NATO dissolves instantly. The alliance that kept the peace in Europe for 75 years evaporates, leaving the continent to rearm and realign against the new aggressor across the Atlantic. We don't just lose an ally; we create a unified enemy.

The military repercussions will be swift and humiliating. Europe will immediately demand the closure of every U.S. military base on the continent. Ramstein in Germany, Aviano in Italy, Lakenheath in the UK, all gone. Our ability to project power into the Middle East and Africa vanishes overnight. We will be evicted from the very soil we helped liberate and defended for decades, forced to retreat to our own shores as a fortress nation, isolated and friendless.

Then comes the economic nuclear option. The European Union is the largest single market in the world, and they will weaponize it. Europe will likely move to call in U.S. debt and dump their dollar reserves, sending the value of our currency into a death spiral. The U.S. economy, which relies on the dollar being the global reserve currency, will collapse. Inflation will make the post-COVID spikes look like a rounding error. Your savings will be worthless before the ink dries on the invasion orders.

Corporate America will face an extinction event. U.S. companies will be expelled from the European market. Apple, Google, McDonald's, and Tesla will see their assets seized or their operations banned. Trillions of dollars in market capitalization will be incinerated in minutes. The stock market will not just crash; it will close. We are talking about the complete de-globalization of American industry, cutting us off from the wealthiest consumers on the planet.

The skies will go silent. European aviation authorities will almost certainly ground all Boeing jets and ban U.S. airlines from their airspace. Transatlantic travel will cease. If you are in Paris or Berlin, you are stuck there. The logistical arteries that feed our supply chains will be severed. We will be cut off from European medicine, machinery, and technology. We will be an island nation in the worst possible sense.

The cultural isolation will be just as stinging. The International Olympic Committee and FIFA will have no choice but to bar the United States from competition, just as they did with Russia. There will be no World Cup matches in New Jersey. There will be no Team USA in the Olympics. We will be treated as a pariah state, unwelcome on the global stage, forced to watch the world celebrate without us.

For individual Americans, the consequences will be personal and painful. Visa-free travel to Europe will end immediately. Americans currently living or working in Europe will lose their legal protections and residency status. They will become persona non grata, potentially facing deportation or internment. The "blue passport" that used to open every door will suddenly be a red flag at every border crossing.

This is the end of trust, and it does not reset. You cannot invade a democratic ally and then say "my bad" four years later. The psychological break will be permanent. Europe will realize that the United States is no longer a partner but a predator. They will build their own defense architecture, their own financial systems, and their own alliances that specifically exclude us. The West will continue, but the United States will no longer be part of it.

Invading Greenland is not a show of strength; it is an act of national suicide. We are trading our reputation, our economy, and our security for a frozen island and a handful of minerals we can't even process. The price of this real estate deal is everything we built over the last century. If we cross this line, there is no going back. We will be the lonely superpower, ruling over nothing but our own decline.

@Underthinker agree with you too. I fully expect the events of Jan 6 2021 to be repeated, maybe exceeded.

Edited

This was written by an (understandably) worried American though. I think the situation would actually be way less favourable for Europe.

brunettemic · 24/01/2026 21:53

spitofyou · 19/01/2026 08:30

I think it would be devastating for the nation.

But trump is as dangerous, if not more, than putin. Something needs to be done.

Ok but what you’re describing is not a civil war. You’re saying a dictatorship will come into force, backed by the military. For a civil war you need two sides of at least vaguely similar capabilities (or failing that at least an organised group) the obvious example being part of the military defies orders and stands against the rest. What you’re describing is more and occupied country with pockets of resistance, like WW2 France.

AnnaQuayInTheUk · 25/01/2026 08:08

I think one of the (many) issues in America is the lack of an organized opposition party. There is no leader of the Democrats. No one for people to rally behind. No one to hold Trump to account.

CheerfulYank · 25/01/2026 09:40

As a Minnesotan, it feels like it.

If so, I know which side I’ll be on.

5MinuteArgument · 25/01/2026 10:23

There's some real lack of historical knowledge on display here. Comparing what's happening in the USA to occupied France in WW2? That would be at a time when 642 French civilians were massacred in Ordour-sur-Glane in 1944?

Even knowledge of American history is lacking. In the 1920s 30,000 KKK marched openly down Pensylvania Avenue and in the 60s and 70s there was much more civil strife.

5MinuteArgument · 25/01/2026 10:25

AnnaQuayInTheUk · 25/01/2026 08:08

I think one of the (many) issues in America is the lack of an organized opposition party. There is no leader of the Democrats. No one for people to rally behind. No one to hold Trump to account.

Surely Kamala Harris is that person?

DdraigGoch · 25/01/2026 19:46

5MinuteArgument · 25/01/2026 10:25

Surely Kamala Harris is that person?

Edited

The US doesn't work like the UK, it's a presidential system. Kamala Harris holds no public position any more. The effective "Leaders of the Opposition" are Chuck Schumer in the Senate and Hakeem Jeffries in the House. They don't have the position or the profile that the Leader of the Opposition does in the UK.

5MinuteArgument · 25/01/2026 20:33

DdraigGoch · 25/01/2026 19:46

The US doesn't work like the UK, it's a presidential system. Kamala Harris holds no public position any more. The effective "Leaders of the Opposition" are Chuck Schumer in the Senate and Hakeem Jeffries in the House. They don't have the position or the profile that the Leader of the Opposition does in the UK.

That's not the point I was making. Kamala was a complete phoney, like many other Dems (not all).

DdraigGoch · 25/01/2026 20:54

5MinuteArgument · 25/01/2026 20:33

That's not the point I was making. Kamala was a complete phoney, like many other Dems (not all).

Please explain what you mean. Mr Blobby would have made a more statesmanlike and less destructive president than Trump.

Obviously I'm aware that many Democrats are "Democrats In Name Only" (DINOs) who just go along and vote with the Republicans anyway. Then there are the Corporate Democrats who are just as much in the pockets of billionaires as the Republicans are.

It's a dreadful shame that Bernie didn't get the nomination in 2016. A man who actually cares about the people he represents.

HelenaWaiting · 26/01/2026 03:14

Chisbots · 19/01/2026 08:33

The new recruits only have 47 days of training & they are coming from selected locations & demographics.

Is anyone else wondering where the Proud Boys went? Didn't Trump tell them to "stand back and stand by"?