9 IVF EMBRYOS

[KeenSnail]

So, we have 9 top grade fertilised embryos in storage (UK). Their grading matters because it means they are more likely to be successful in a transfer.

It’s now time to decide what to do with them as my husband and I have two healthy boys.

Option 1: Clinically dispose of them. (Feels sad and wasteful)
Option 2: Donate to medical training and research. (I’d be pleased that they were created for some positive purpose.)
Option 3: Donate to people who wish to have a family. (Lovely in theory but lots of what ifs.)

My issue is, UK law prevents embryo donors from having any contact or relationship with the donor family or potential children. My two sons would be genetically full siblings to any babies born from donating the embryos and I hate the idea that they wouldn’t grow up knowing them.

The only chance for contact is the donor child being given my name and last known address when they turn 18 (but no certainty they would reach out of course.) My mum donated 4 embryos 25 years back, my siblings and parents all wish we knew what came of them and long for contact.

In a dream world I’d find people who wanted a open/known embryo donation and set up an arrangement where there was opportunity for the kids to meet occasionally.

I guess I’m stuck, it’s a huge and very final thing to have to decide. Any advice greatly appreciated.

YABU - donate to research or dispose
YANBU - donate to potential families

1 or 2.

Ideally children should grow up in their family where they feel they belong genetically.

Adoption is different because the baby/child already exists and needs a loving family.

Donating embryos is creating a child to purposefully be deprived of their genetic family.

I also wouldn’t donate eggs or sperm if I was a man.

Answer the question. I ask because if you haven't been in that situation I don't think you judge others who are.

Nonsense.

No issues, I was fertile.
Are you suggesting I am
not allowed an opinion on significant ethical issues, which impact society, because I was fertile?
How bizarre and self-centred.

Its mental isn't it. It popped up on the news just before Christmas i think.

There is lots of this going on. It’s disgraceful. There are also(probably too many) instances of sperm being mixed from 2 donors before inserted. Sickening and very wrong. Poor kids.

No I am suggesting that you being fertile means you can't really be in a position to understand infertility and why people might use donor eggs/sperm although I thought you might understand why that previous comment about "created in a lab" was offensive. Always the ones who pop out kids who seem very against IVF.

Or maybe being infertile can cloud the view of how ethical something may be because of the intense desire to have a baby.

Very understandable, but also why it's important that other people have opinions too.

Indeed.

We have one DS and some embryos in storage. Given complications with my pregnancy and concerns about how we'd make our jobs and finances work with more than one child I don't think we'll be doing another round of IVF (not sure I could face it anyway!).

We'll keep them in storage for a little longer to give us some thinking space (DS is still little so we may feel different once we're out of the trenches a bit!) but then I think we'll go down the donating to research/training route.

As others have said on this thread, it's thanks to people volunteering in the past that IVF (and our baby) was possible and we're both medical so appreciative of the patients who have let us be involved in their care when we were students.

The idea of us having children out there with no knowledge of who they are, where they live, what their lives are like etc is just too difficult for me, let alone the wider ethical issues.

I do.

Children are a responsibility, and it feels irresponsible to me personally to hand my biological children (via egg or embryo) off to total strangers to raise, who may neglect, abuse, or indoctrinate them into beliefs I consider harmful.

I'd also feel emotionally invested in any egg or embryo that was brought to fruition as a live child - my child. On a purely emotional level, I want to raise any children of mine that exist in the world.

I wouldn't want my existing children to have siblings they don't know about and didn't grow up with, and as they're teenagers now, while we've never had reason to discuss me donating eggs specifically, I'm fairly certain their views are such that they wouldn't want me to do it.

I also have concerns about the ethics of a child being deliberately brought into the world with the advance intention of them not knowing their biological parents, and the effect it might have on them. That's not a risk I'm happy to take.

We need to make the same decision soon. We will probably give to research

Please seperate IVF from donated eggs and sperm.

The IVF, IUI and clomid etc. aren't the issue the issue is children potentially having hundreds of half siblings.
And not knowing where they came from. Who do they look like etc etc

Then in a few years it coming to light via DNA databases etc.

Yep. It’s unethical.

One could equally say that those who are infertile are too close to the issue - they have a clear conflict of interest and vested bias, and so may well not make the most objectively ethical decision.

I think in general, it's good for everyone to have space to give their opinions and reasoning - civilly though.

I couldn't donate mine anyway due to my husband being too old but you do realise that donors don't have anonymity anymore and that donors can only have a certain number of children before they aren't allowed to donate anymore. Yes I have watched the Dutch programme.

Should say my lab kids look normal most days @Jamesblonde2 😂

I would hope that the chances that someone that wanted a baby badly enough to go down the IVF/donation route would treat a child badly are low. But I think there is a very high chance that with the DNA tests as they are the chances are that you will be found whether or not you want it. I'd also be concerned about your kids meeting them later in life and not knowing. I think I would still rather 2.

Did you see the article able the man with 197 THAT THEY KNOW OF, and lots of them have leukemia?

Each country sets their own rules on number of donations and numbers of families but he was donating in Denmark and it was being sent round Europe.

Sperm donor BBC News

This is scary

Yes I agree with this. I am/was infertile and IVF did not work for me, but I don’t think the desire for a child trumps everything.

I didn’t think you could do 3 if they have true siblings now your two kids. I was in a similar position and did 2

Sadly, you need to embrace your username more.

More than once, men have used IVF with a surrogate to create babies to abuse, and I'm sure it's happening far, far more than the authorities know. It's utterly horrifying, but makes perfect sense for a paedophile to pay a large sum of money to create a baby to abuse, which they can groom into the abuse from birth, without having to hide it from the baby's parents.

And that's not even getting into other types of abuse or neglect.

(ETA: Please excuse the weirdly religious Heritage Foundation link that I've now switched out for a more normal article; it was the first one I could find reporting on the news story. In just grabbing a few links, I only glanced at them 🫣)

WTF. You clearly live in another century to have made such an ignorant comment.

I did IVF at 40 @KeenSnail, we had success the first round, with no embryos left. I do understand your situation and dilemma though.

I couldn't donate to people - for reasons echoed here already. I would always FEEL I had children out there, and wonder about their lives. So it would not be an option for me.

I think if there was just one left, I would let it go. But given the number you do have left, I would donate to science. There is still so much work to be done in this field. I would feel I had not only benefited from, and succeeded with IVF but had also contributed to its future advances.

Wishing you well with your decision

We potentially have this issue - 2 children, 5 embryos stored. We are using some more this year (hopefully only one!) but I think we’d donate to research if they will have them once our family is completed. I don’t think I could cope with full siblings of my kids being around and me not knowing even though I know it’s a lovely thing to do.

My Secret hope for this thread was to find someone who was on a waiting list for an embryo donor who shared my wishes for a ‘open’ or ‘know’ donation

Im lucky never to have been in the position to consider ivf or donated eggs but I can imagine it’ll be really hard to find your ideal family. If I’m using donated eggs I’m probably sad that the child isn’t biological mine but at the same time obviously growing the child, giving birth and raising the child will create a bond. I just can’t imagine wanting the woman around who donated that egg in my child’s life. It would just confuse things and remind me of the origin of the child.

I’m finding it hard to get in the mindset of the person who’d want that.