9 IVF EMBRYOS

[KeenSnail]

So, we have 9 top grade fertilised embryos in storage (UK). Their grading matters because it means they are more likely to be successful in a transfer.

It’s now time to decide what to do with them as my husband and I have two healthy boys.

Option 1: Clinically dispose of them. (Feels sad and wasteful)
Option 2: Donate to medical training and research. (I’d be pleased that they were created for some positive purpose.)
Option 3: Donate to people who wish to have a family. (Lovely in theory but lots of what ifs.)

My issue is, UK law prevents embryo donors from having any contact or relationship with the donor family or potential children. My two sons would be genetically full siblings to any babies born from donating the embryos and I hate the idea that they wouldn’t grow up knowing them.

The only chance for contact is the donor child being given my name and last known address when they turn 18 (but no certainty they would reach out of course.) My mum donated 4 embryos 25 years back, my siblings and parents all wish we knew what came of them and long for contact.

In a dream world I’d find people who wanted a open/known embryo donation and set up an arrangement where there was opportunity for the kids to meet occasionally.

I guess I’m stuck, it’s a huge and very final thing to have to decide. Any advice greatly appreciated.

YABU - donate to research or dispose
YANBU - donate to potential families

Lol.

Would UK laws around this block 2 couples from doing an open embryo adoption ? If both wanted to but a clinic knew would they refuse to then do a transfer or is it allowed if both parties want that?

No way to option 3. Poor kids could be messed up. Completely Genetically different to parents and any siblings. Then forced to be half brought up my some randoms who had them created in a lab!

Why the ‘created in a lab’ dig? My son was ‘created in a lab’, is he some sort of sub-human?

Yeah my kids have horns because they are created in a lab. 🙄

This is @KeenSnail whole point - they wouldn’t want to be ‘randoms’ and would want to see and have a relationship with any child that was born ?

But that could bring quite a messed up confusing dynamic for any potential child. Why risk that when you don’t have to. Surely donating them to testing could also help others that needed it in different ways.

Som clinics will allow a ‘known’ transfer. A great example would be people donating to family members.

I’m guessing if not would it have to be a situation where the embryos were shipped abroad to a clinic that would allow an open donation between unrelated families ?

I donated my 3 spares to research.

I did enquire what research they do on them and was told sometimes it can be as simple as staff training, the embryologists need to practice handling them and transferring them as their skills is one of the biggest things that determine pregnancy sucess rates.

Donation to another couple I wouldn't have been comfortable with. A genetic full sibling to my kids who I have no idea what life they are leading.

I don't think its fair to kids to have that level of complication not knowing what your true roots are.
I know someone who is adopted, who mentioned going to other people's family gatherings you can see who looks, like who. Who acts like who. And that being something he never felt he fitted in within his own family.

This post has been playing on my mind.

I’m trying to imagine a child finding out they were a donated embryo and trying to come to terms with the fact that they were “not needed” “surplus to requirements” by their biological parents and so, given away.

I’m also trying to reconcile whether there would be any substantial difference between giving away an embryo created by myself and my husband, and potential sibling to my DDs, and giving away that same embryo as a newborn “because I don’t need a third”. I don’t really see much difference, ethically….

I'll bite.

At 5 days, an embryo does not need a human body to develop. That's why IVF works. But pretty soon, it does. The whole development of that embryo depends on one human body. The expression of its genes - which ones are 'switched on' and which are not - is controlled by that uterine environment and everything in it. As that baby grows, it will respond differently to the voice of the person who's carrying it, and the touch of the person who's carrying it. It will learn to recognise other familiar voices around that person, too.

If you were to give away a newborn for adoption because you couldn't manage to raise that baby, someone could adopt that baby and love it. But it is not the same as donating an embryo at day 5. An embryo at day 5 has no capacity to feel or sense anything about its environment. It hasn't spent weeks listening to your heartbeat or your voice.

I think adoption is a much better thing than someone struggling to raise a child they know they can't afford or manage for whatever reason. But it's daft to compare it to what the OP is talking about.

Your post is really offensive to those of use who have had IVF and if you're not one of those I suggest you don't comment.

No way would I allow someone else to have “my child”. Laws could change, so many ethical issues (I’m not quite there yet even on storage on embryos at all). Mark my words, science progresses, it never reverses.

If I had time I’d put together so many questions about this.

It sounds awful even destroying them, but to me that’s the best option.

It’s in AIBU, not a medical thread!

Absolutely I do.

Yes, I'd feel the same way.

Its not just laws that change.
People are adding their DNA profiles to huge databases all the time.
Can you imagine in a couple of generations someone unaware of the donation finding a there relation on a database?
Its not just the embryo you have to consider its their potential offspring who are genetically Neices and Nephews to your kids.

I also feel the same way about egg and sperm donation.

I'd maybe allow it to happen within family, sister to sister, brother to brother, possibly cousins but not beyond that.

I don't have any issues with fertility treatment but the more I think about it the more I think donation is wrong.

Did anyone see the man who'd fathered 200+ kids across Europe, throught donations, over 100 of them have leukaemia?

Did you conceive easily?

Not the point.
This is bigger than individual need or want.

Ethics should go beyond personal situation.

Deleted first stupid question after re-reading OP’s posts.

For what it’s worth, my son was born via IVF with my eggs and DH’s sperm. I am forever grateful to have been alive in a time when IVF existed. We had no left over embryos, so I never had to make your decision, but I think that I would have been happy to donate for research/training. I don’t give any thought to the multiple embryos that were transferred to me during IVF but did not “stick”, so ones used for training would end their existence in a similar way.

Would not want my son to have a live full sibling out there, or to put an adopted embryo child in that position. Nobody needs that complication in life, and too easy to find online these days.

Jesus, I just googled that and wish I hadn't

Donate them to research! They are able to do absolutely incredible things with the help of people donating their embryos. Stem cell medicine has so much potential!

edit: they could also be used to improve fertility research which I think many people are aware of as previously mentioned. They can also be used in stem cells research due to embryonic stem cells being the most ‘powerful’, this side of the research is leading to great success at improving outcomes for many illnesses.