AIBU - expecting son to pay for his own 'luxury' groceries on top of rent

[QuaintNewt]

23yo DS pays £500 a month 'rent'. This includes, all bills including mobile but ive recently asked him to take this on himself as he can get cheap sim only contract and good for credit rating etc. It also includes meals and snacks Sunday - Thursday with the original agreement being he buys his own meals on weekends (take aways) although if im cooking i will offer to include him and his gf in meals too.

We are very comfortable and not financially 'short' but also not loaded, we live well but dont have loads left over, and DS earns around £1800 after tax and has EV paid through work costing him £30 a month BIK (he charges at home and claims work mileage as expenses) so no other outgoings .

He thinks £500 a month is excessive and we have recently had a discussion about him paying us for his car electricity on top of his rent, I also do not want to buy him large packs of canned drinks and coffee pods (nespresso) as part of our weekly shop. The coffee machine was purchased as weve recently moved rurally and i miss my occasional coffee shop coffee but dont expect to be paying £150 a month in pods for is all which I can see happening ig DH,DS,DD all start drinking 2 o 3 coffees a day!

AIBU and a tighta**e or do you think expecting him to purchase these things himself is fair?

I think you’re charging him enough as it is. I know people say, oh if they don’t want to pay, go and live in the real world but while it’s more financially beneficial to live at home, there are also drawbacks.

Surely the most you’d want to be charging him is the cost of of the food he eats and a fair and reasonable contribution to utility bills, rather than ‘rent’ for the roof over his head. Wanting to charge him for charging his EV is a little petty imo, especially given you don’t need the money.

All our 3 DS’s lived at home at various times into their late 20’s. We charged as little as we could. So about £25-30 a week pre covid.

They all now own houses have normal lives/wives/children/excellent jobs. None of them are man children and they are all very capable and domesticated.

Partly because they managed to save for deposits. WHY when you are comfortable would you charge so much?

The average UK household spends £2,870 a month on household bills—according to the average (and unlikely!) household size of 2.3 people. However this figure averages all households (including those with no rent or mortgage expenses)—so housing costs would typically be lower for those owning a home outright and higher for those with a mortgage or renting.

The average household with a mortgage spends £3,516 a month.

Lots more detail here:

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-uk-household-budget

They sourced their data from the ONS.

Absolutely no way is food 100 a month for an adult person. I was spending at least 200 a month as a single woman about 15 years ago, before the cost of living crisis. I think there's a serious underestimation of costs going on along a lot of pps. If he was living alone and entertaining a girlfriend he could easily spend 500 a month just on that.

Its not about needing the money. I have friends whom saved the just below market rate rent and gave it to them after they had bought their first home. It was enormously appreciated by them.
Its about them realising that they need to pay their way.

The peppercorn amount can lead to unrealistic spending hzbits that can eventually lead to credit card debt.
Far better they learn early.

It’s different when you are buying for more people. Singles pay higher than a family per person.

Stop treating him like a child then, tell him to clean up his own bloody mess.

My children would be paying around that if they lived with me, and I don't think it's unreasonable for them to pay for certain 'luxury' groceries. If food is included in the rent, that means that you cater for him, providing enough food for his meals but not that you will just buy anything he likes. If he isn't happy with that then there are other options!

100% this. There is no way in hell that my parents would have allowed such blatant disrespect in their house, and nor should they have. I won't allow it in my house either.
People who tolerate this from their children are doing them no favours whatsoever.

Allocate 2 pods per person per day.

Any more and they put a quid in a jar towards the next grocery shop.

It's still cheaper and nicer than Costa.

No exactly. the DS is acting like a stroppy teen and doesn’t seem to have learned after being bailed out twice.

you’ve got more than one issue here about whether £500 is fair or not.

He sounds like a lazy entitled loser tbh, sorry op.
I would just want him out of my house if he was smoking and complaining about the very very reasonable cost of rent.
He needs to find a room and pay his way, let him fuck up and don't take him back in without a legal agreement drawn up by an actual solicitor, add in fines for smoking, monthly room checks etc.
He is taking the piss, he isn't even grateful for what you're doing for him, I would have loved parents like yourself, lots of us got tossed out and absolutely zero help or handouts.

I don't agree, I think if I lived by myself and didn't have two teenagers who eat a lot. I think I would would save loads of money. For example the rate at which cheese is consumed by the teenagers compared to just me.

Oh, and last time I was at home (around 2003) I paid 1/3 of my modest salary - which worked out as about £350 per month, towards bills and groceries.
And I let my dad have the odd can of my beer!

I think you’re incredibly tight tbh.

I do think £500 a month is on the higher side, probably not far off what he would pay if renting a bedroom in the area depending where you live. The coffee pods aren't that expensive are they? If he's works out of the home (which with the vehicle I would guess he doesn't wfh) I would assume having one a day...
I think you are being tight in my opinion but if he's using loads of coffee pods just tell him to buy more himself. Don't increase the £500 as you don't need it and he should be saving money for a deposit at this age.

That's a lot to charge him! What are the going rates for a house share where you live?

Or chuck the coffee machine.

Can't he use a kettle and some instant?

I was initially going to say that you were charging him alot since you didn't "need" his contribution. But having read your updates with him having moved out twice and getting in financial trouble which you had to bail him out from I think it's a good thing that you are charging him 500. It's a better deal than he would ever find on his own.

But @QuaintNewt what's up with him leaving dirty dishes, not helping out and smoking? And that you don't want to tell him off because this would lead to an argument?
Sounds crazy to me to have your 23 year old son to expect to cater to him and be his maid. No wonder he gets in trouble in the real world if the bar is set so low at home. When he will move out he'll expect his gf to take over the domestic chores- you are raising a man child OP!

I would not charge rent, and I don’t. Mine pay for their other personal bills though. I provide food. Sometimes they buy extra food that they particularly want themselves.
My job is allow them to save so that they can leave and buy an home eventually. The only rent I have ever agreed with on MN was the type where you charge them and give it back as their partial deposit to help them to leave.

You haven’t parented him properly. Surely he should be clearing up after himself. Are you just pushing it further down the line for some poor wife/girlfriend to have to deal with? I think £500 is a lot but why are you paying for his mobile phone? He isn’t 14.

Just read all OP Posts - your son sounds difficult. In what world would you pay for HIS takeway when you go out!!

I truly believe that the biggest favour we can do for our children is to teach them to be responsible, self sufficient adults. This includes paying rent and expenses. Lots of parents who are financially comfortable save the ‘rent’ and give it back to their adult child later on to help with house deposit etc.

How is saving money for them teaching any financial responsibility? It's like tying a toddler's shoelaces. If you don't teach them they never learn. Teach your teenagers or YAs about banks, credit, investments, budget, stocks and shares, don't do it for them.
Most 23 year olds (albeit not in this case) have been to uni, rented and lived on a shoestring before coming home. If you don't need the money I see no point in "teaching them a lesson" by taking their money. Keep an eye on their finances by encouraging them to save but let them have a bit of time with their own cash before they jump on the treadmill of life and bills.

I have 2 dcs at uni, niece and nephew who’ve just finished.
they are all spending about £40 a week fir food. Dc1 more like £50 (trains a lot so eats a lot).
Thats £200 a month on basic food. No coffee pods, no take away, no sandwich at lunch time.
£500 a month all inclusive is a bargain, sorry.

Especially when you consider that he has maid service included in that £500, he doesn't even do any housework.