To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

This thread has become completely out of context. I see the OP still hasn’t returned to tell us what the actual situation is.

Just to clarify about leaders, all genders have always been welcome as volunteers. There always has to be at least two adults present for safeguarding. All leaders / volunteers are enhanced level DBS checked.

This ISNT anything new and is the same for Scouting organisation BEFORE they changed their policy to admit girls as children members.

Were they in uniform? I think just ask the question of the leader because you’ve not really got enough information to make a judgement here and need more.

I stopped being a Guider after many years due to this policy No
way was ai taking boys on camp and not even being allowed to tell the parents

I don't blame you.

This is shocking beyond all belief. What ever happened to basic safeguarding? How did management get to a place where they put girls safety in such jeopardy?

Thank you
The first time I heard of the policy I simply couldn’t believe it
First of all I considered just not taking the Guides camping but then I decided I could not stay in Guiding as a matter of principle
Apart from that ,taking teenage girls and boys camping together what could possibly go wrong
And then if something did what would I say to a parent that I had not told the situation to

Safeguarding my arse

"I wish they would sort it out and make one for boys and one for girls. The scout group near me, all the girls also attended guides so get 2 lots of trips etc, the boys seem to get hardly anything. Madness. It’s gone too far the other way now."

It hasn't gone too far "now" as Scouts has been mixed sex for decades.

Had people wanted it to remain single sex at the time they could've fought for that (maybe they did and failed) in the same way that people have been recently are fighting for Guides to remain single sex.

That said the fight for Guides is different to the Scouts, given the current climate of parents allowing boys to pretend that they're girls and the lunatic Guides management going along with it

Scouts allowed girls to join for 2 key reasons - 1, GirlGuiding was domestic, boring and sexist. Active girls got nothing from it and were then offered an opportunity to support Scouts and have a more adventurous time. 2, boys are generally not threatened by individual girls speaking up or contributing in a mixed sex group. In groups of girls, however, many girls will unconsciously defer to boys and boys will feel they need to lead or dominate. And they do! GirlGuiding remained girls only to protect girls.

The text below is copied from another thread but it sums it up perfectly:

"There are benefits to women from single sex opportunities and spaces that are not to do with physical safety but with the confidence that comes with having your voice heard, having space to learn our own capabilities away from male entitlement and the male tendency to dismissing or reframe what women say, and freed from the mental load of having to monitor or restrict ourselves in case we attract male sexual aggression or violence.

None of those really come under the heading of "safety" but all of them still create material financial, social, political or cultural drags on women's ability to live empowered lives."

This issue was caused as soon as girls were accepted into scouting. It needs to work both ways otherwise it's sexism. Quite why a boy would want to join such a sexist, anti male organisation I've no idea.

Its not sexist at all…guiding and scouts are two completely different organisations

unless you think the cat protection league should help dogs

The main reason for the scarcity of boys doing ballet is that they are actively deterred from starting dance classes or continuing with them, either by their relatives or by their peers. The negative pressure is too much for all but the most determined.

I've decided to carry on until it actually becomes an issue in my unit. I don't want to deny girls the opportunity to experience Girlguiding on the basis of something that may not happen. No sign of any boys yet, although I appreciate other units may have different experiences.

And now GG have got back with the programme (reluctantly) so it should never be an issue.

Are you sure it's not just a short-haired girl?

My youngest is the most 'masculine' child you could ever meet. Buzzed hair, all boys clothes, has a 'boyish' voice and way of talking, would walk around shirtless if I allowed it, has a nickname associated more with boys than girls.

Everyone who sees my youngest will naturally assume "boy".

But nope. She's a girl (I think she THINKS she was a male footballer in another life though)

So if you put yourself in the shoes of the other mum for a second. Your lovely gentle little boy prefers to play with girls, likes dolls, unicorns and whatever else it is girls like. Are you telling me you would send him to rough and tumble cubs with the rest of the boys that like play fighting, football, minecraft etc? Or are you going to send him somewhere he will fit in and have a good time? Check your prejudices OP.

Cubs is mixed sex ffs 🫠

And liking playing with dolls is not a requisite entry criteria to girls single sex spaces. Being female is

Thats my boy…he loved cubs, partly cos a lot of his female friends were there

I had a lovely gentle little boy that loves all those "girly" things and hated football, rough play, guns etc.
It didn't occur to me for a minute that he should be allowed into girls spaces. Groups that were mixed sex, and did a variety of activities were what we looked for.

He wouldn't fit in at Brownies, it's a girls only organisation.

It's not prejudice, it's the bloody law.

My brother was like this but he went to cubs and loved it. It was boys only back then.

I have fought this battle and observed it for best part of 20 years now. Incredibly depressing as nothing much has actually changed. Slightly but not much

Why do you think the scouts are anti male?

You know they only let girls in because enough boys and men were not volunteering?

I agree though it is unfair there's no single sex one for boys. There should be.

That's a good point. I guess the kind of situation in Billy Elliott to some degree still prevails!

She is a teen now, DS has been mates with her since they began school at 5. She has been mistaken for a boy ever since I've known her, from a tiny dot of a thing to now.

Just wanted to say mistaking a girl for a boy in childhood can and does happen - I've watched it for years now, and literally just a few weeks ago in my house.

OP clearly doesn't know the family and has not met the child before, so should keep in mind that she may very well be worrying about a girl that she has mistaken for a boy.

Yes it does, very much so.

Nobody bats an eyelid when their 5 year-old girl wants to play football, do they? But if their 5 year-old boy wants to dance?