To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

Thry can just ask the parents. Every parent knows what sex their child was born.

It’s a bit dramatic to feel ‘off’. It’s bunch of 7-10yr olds. Just ask the leader about it in regard to girl guiding single sex policy.

I don’t think it’s dramatic at all. I’m not wringing my hands and wailing I’m just sitting here quietly feeling a bit funny about it without really knowing why. I’ll get over it I’m sure!

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Brownies and Guides were trans inclusive, but have had to announce that, due to the Supreme Court ruling, this would have to stop. They are very upset about this and are looking at ways to include trans girls ie to circumvent the law.

Some boys are still attending but longer term shouldn't happen.

The problem Guides and Brownies have is that their charitable aims are all about girls and they have to stick to them or change the aims. Cubs/ Scouts used to be for boys but they were low in numbers so they changed the charitable aims to include girls.

End result is that Scouts/Cubs accept thst they need solid safeguarding on trips and girls and boys are separated. Up until the recent announcement, Guides and Brownies accepted that everyone was a female and so had no separation.

It’s illegal for any group in the UK to promote itself as girls-only or women-only and to then allow boys and girls. It’s misleading. He should join Scouts which is promoted as unisex and where he’d be welcome.

I’m sick and tired of certain parents thinking their child’s ’gender identity’ is a free pass for them to access any place designed for the opposite sex. It’s so selfish.

But my friend is one of the brownie leaders

Can't you ask your friend?

Cubs has been for boys and girls for years. It’s not right that Brownies is girls only. Why is everyone assuming this boy is trans? Girls in Cubs aren’t always assumed to be trans! I’m not sure why you feel so weird, OP?

If Cubs/ Scouts allow girls then Brownies/Guides should allow boys. Or go back to how it used to be.

You're feeling funny about it because you expected an environment for girls. An organisation focused on girls. A space for girls. A place where girls are prioritised. I get it OP.

Some girls just prefer an all girl environment, like all girls schools for instance. If cubs want to be mixed fair enough but if brownies have decided its all girls then all girls it should be regardless of the cubs rules.
I don't think OP is being dramatic. Prob just peed off that she enrolled her daughter where there were all girls only to find its not.

Guides' charitable aims state they are for girls.

Scouts' are for boys and girls.

They HAVE to adhere to their charitable aims. The Guiding movement can't override their aims and include boys. They so want to but it would be illegal.

the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’

Out of the mouths of babes...

I don’t blame you - it is very off. Including a boy in a girls group and concealing that from parents is very poor. GG and Brownies for some inexplicable reason are determined to destroy their raison d’etre by admitting boys. As PPs have said this is against their charitable objects and is morally wrong.

Sadly it indicates the leadership of that pack are brainwashed and unlikely to apply proper safeguarding so will allow the boy to share toilet and sleeping accommodation with girls in any overnight trips. I’d write a stern letter to GG HQ.

You feel a bit off because you have been intentionally deceived. Brownies has alway been marketed as a girls organisation. Even when they let boys who I’d as trans in they did it on the (incorrect) basis that these boys were girls.

the expectation is that there will only be girls there. And you turn up and this isn’t the case. Now you see the lie. However it is framed, your trust in the organisation is out the window now.

imagine if your dd was going on a camp this weekend- you’d be very concerned as they are in charge of your dds welfare, but intentionally presenting as untrustworthy & potentially disregarding safeguarding.

you feel a bit off because now you might need to have a conversation about the gender bollocks with your young dd. Maybe not if they were acknowledging this boy is a boy (as opposed to pretending he is a girl).

you feel a bit off because this lovely group your dd has enjoyed, possibly her first venture out into the world in her own outside of school, where she goes to have fun & adventure, is not what it says it is. I expect that’s a bit disappointing & unnerving.

How old was this boy?

Do you really consider him a predator, or is it more likely his parents brought him along with his sisters because that was easier?

"another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ "

Unless it was that child's sibling's first Brownies, the little one probably always comes to drop off/pick up their sister. The fact that she was surprised makes be think he isn't normally there. Obviously it could be that

• SHE doesn't usually come to drop/off pick-up
• it was HER siblings first night
• it was the boy Brownie's first night

However it sounds more likely that HE isn't normally there. My guess is, dad is working late, is sick or otherwise importantly engaged. Brownies only just have enough leaders to run, and so the reality was mum brings her son and he join in for the night or Brownies was cancelled! The leader probably stuck him in spare uniform as she had some!

Do you not have to see a birth cert anyway? I don't think my kids have ever gone to a club without having to produce a birth cert to confirm their age on registration.

They are now following the Supreme Court decision

It’s not dramatic. It’s perfectly normal to feel something is off when any person of any age maintains they are the opposite sex when they clearly are not. We instinctively recognise sex.

We spend time teaching little girls not to trust people who pretend to be things they aren’t.
That boy may be the loveliest of children. He’s still a boy and has no entitlement to join a group for girls or to require them to all pretend that he’s a girl. He should join a unisex group or a boys group, instead of imposing himself.

I think sometimes some reflection is needed on just how bonkers this all is, and for the adults around him to say, no - you are a great little boy but you aren’t a girl and won’t ever be one so you can’t join a girls’ group.

The reason the other parent and the child who made the comment were there was because they had been invited like me as family of new joiners taking their promise.

Why? One organisation has made itself less useful to its formerly intended audience, why do you want Brownies to do the same? Are you suggesting tit for tat? ‘If I can’t have it nor can you?’

Scouts membership was in deep decline (maybe something to do with the lack of safeguarding) so they had to admit girls. A shame imo.

But Scouts were always for boys. One of my sons had a very girl-heavy class (11-4) and he enjoyed Cubs. When they let girls in, it was all fine. Until he went up to Scouts, had a “girlfriend” who dropped him so he left Scouts as he was really shy and embarrassed, bless him! I went through Brownies and Guides, then Rangers and Ventures were mixed which was the right balance I felt.

Doesn't work like that

They have charitable objects (policies) that they have to follow

Our pack was not in decline at all, it was oversubscribed.