To feel weird about Brownies because there’s a boy there?

[ElizaDolittle124]

Was invited to Brownies tonight to see my daughter do her ‘promise’. Was a bit awkward as it turns out there’s a boy in the group. Another parent turned up with a younger sibling who immediately said loudly ‘mummy why is there a boy here?’ The mum was v flustered trying to explain he wanted to join in and the child just said ‘but brownies is for girls’ until she told him to be quiet.

I just feel a bit weird that I didn’t know. The whole reason we joined brownies was for the girls only environment, which my daughter was really excited about. Feel like I should have just put her in the scouts instead now (which would have been more convenient). But my friend is one of the brownie leaders and she encouraged me by promoting the idea of a girl’s only space.

There’s a brownie camp sleepover thing next month where they sleep in dormitories. My daughter can’t go anyway as we have other plans that weekend, but it’s got me wondering how they’re going to arrange that? Surely they can’t have the boy sleeping separately in a room on his own, but equally he can’t go with the girls?

It is the case everywhere. Mean girl behaviour exists everywhere but is worse when there are no boys to dilute it. No there really shouldn’t be single sex schools as they are damaging. If parents want them they should pay for them themselves.

It’s both and the toxic mean girl behaviour is diluted. Also the whole range of children is in mixed settings so girls that dont fit the stereotype don’t stand out so much and aren’t called weird as per the OP.

Of course you're not being unreasonable. Brownies are for girls.

This made me SMH: Can’t believe you’re justifying exclusion. Children shouldn’t be excluded from any group. They’re children.

We exclude children all the time. From pubs. From the class where the other kids are 2 years older than them. From the part of the swimming pool that has been set aside for adults. From driving lessons. From the workplace. From birthday parties of people they don't know very well or are not as friendly to as other children are. From sports events they wouldn't be able to keep up with.

I wonder when this idea first came in, that the worst thing in the world for children, is to be excluded. All of us are excluded from some activities, environments or groups of people at some point because we don't have a god-given right to be included in everyone's life all the time. Part of growing up is learning that we aren't the centre of the world and sometimes other people get on with stuff without our presence. It's a perfectly normal thing that we all learned and it wasn't particularly upsetting: it's not a heartbreakingly difficult lesson to learn and pretending it is can only lead to a rise in narcissism.

I disagree about Brownies, I wasn't a particularly girlie girl and it was fine for me. Actually I remembered that I still have my badges! Just found them. I was a Brownie for a year as I came to it quite late, and I did home safety, author/writer, entertainer, hostess (ok that was girlie), pathfinder, agility and swimming. Not that stereotypical other than the hostess one.

However I do agree about bullying at all-girls schools but MN doesn't like it when you talk about that - maybe a few guilty consciences around.

Wow so it’s ok to exclude girls that don’t fit the stereotype. Yeah that sounds really healthy and something we want to encourage- not!

What? Why are you pretending I said something I didn't?

No it's not OK to exclude girls that don't fit stereotypes from Brownies and I didn' say it was, you said that. it's perfectly OK to exclude boys though. Just as it's fine to exclude girls from cub scouts.

And i can't believe you're justifying causing further trauma to already traumatised children, but there we are.

What I love about volunteering is seeing how different the girls are and watching them grow and develop skills. They are all so different.
We offer a wide range of activities and trips. Not compulsory they pick and choose eg some prefer city breaks to camping and vice versa.
Some things we do as whole group, sometimes with friends, sometimes on small groups we call patrols to ensure a good mix of girls and ages.
Some girls just come to see friends. Some very keen do badges in own time.
I wouldn’t volunteer anywhere with a mean girl vibe and make sure everyone is included and new girls welcome. There’s adjustment plans for disabilities etc.

The single sex aspect and exclusion of trans girls hysteria has now made exclusion of those that don’t for the norm and stereotyping worse . Saying ah well if they don’t fit or like it they can just shove off is not ok.

Nope. It’s the job of social and MH services alongside the police to deal with crime and trauma not guiding.

If you can get the adults in your life to believe you. And even if they do, its damn near impossible to get any decent therapy at all. Especially on the NHS.

Well that shows you aren’t aware of or educated enough about the problem. It’s everywhere(as is bullying) and is worse in all girl environments.

Agreed. However it still isn’t the job of guiding to fill the gap.

Just as well they weren't dealing with my trauma then isn't it. Just providing a space where I could be free to relax and not be on edge all the time.

Other children matter too.

Trans girls are not girls. They are boys.

Letting them join Cubs but not Brownies & Guides is not exclusion.

Of course they do. I have never said they haven't. But as a child who needed a single sex group, I will fight for that to be an option now and in the future.

People who don't want single sex groups can choose not to use them, or campaign to get rid of them.

Great post

Yes they can.

It really isn’t. Some children are well
used to being excluded. The live with it all the time and are far more used to it than those that fit in,Saying girls that don’t fit the normal
stereotype , who are different and shoved out are narcissistic for not wanting to be excluded from groups for children is pretty ignorant and ridiculous.

So women and girls can't have clubs of their own?

Honestly, they just can’t leave girls and women in peace can they?

All we want now and again is to hang out with other girls and women and have a bit of quiet….but no.

You can’t even pop on a brown dress and get your St.Johns Ambulance in peace without some boy’s mum kicking up a stink because their little Toby doesn’t like sport.

Pretending boys are girls is not OK.

It isn't hysterical to want brownies to be for girls. It's hysterical to pretend that boys are girls because they've been groomed to believe they are.

No one has to accept your pretence that boys are girls. Calling a boy a transgirl doesn't make him a girl, he's still a boy and the sooner he learns to accept that, the better for his mental and physical health.

You can start namecalling now, but it changes nothing, the jig is up, people have had enough of this and you are harming children if you tell them they are the opposite sex to what they actually are. It's not kind, it's setting them up for terrible mental health problems in future and I cannot understand why anyone would do that to a child. I hope to see less of this in the future.

But I didn't say that.

I said it's OK to exclude boys from girls' spaces and vice versa.

I simply do not accept your peculiar ideology that boys who have been groomed to believe they are girls, are really girls.

Enough already. Very few people believe this and we are sick of the people who do (or pretend to) trying to set the parameters of the debate.

I do not accept your premise that boys who say they are girls are girls. They are boys and they will grow up to be men, even if they are groomed to want castration when they do.

Seriously...
Omg, life is getting outrageous. Kids can't decide if it's new year or new York they are living in. Stop all this crap.. your born a girl or born a boy..
Live with it