West Midlands Police Chief Constable Should beSacked......

[Ablondiebutagoody]

..... for using fake evidence to justify the ban on Jewish fans from the Aston Villa v Maccabi Tel Aviv match last year. When in reality, the threat was towards those fans from local anti-semites and he just couldn't be arsed to protect them.

Its mad really. We are talking about "community leaders" de facto running the UK's second city, as a euphemism for the loudest mouthed local Muslim men. And they're essentially dictating who can and cannot watch a football match in the UK's second largest city with the collaboration with this pathetic police force. And some wonder why Tommy Robinson is getting support and Reform are leading the polls.

The only story here is a rare example of the police being caught lying (in itself not even news) and someone actually being expected to be held accountable for it.

Usually the police (literally) get away for murder.

I can see why the Chief Constable might feel it's a tad unfair,

(The specifics of the case are a distraction, in my opinion).

The behaviour of WMP here is very, very much a story here and is extremely relevant... but agree with you he probably does feel hard done to.

He should have the good grace to resign it’s a sad sign of where the uk is that he thinks it’s acceptable to cling on

Do you also think we should be arresting people before they have planned or committed any crimes? Pre-emptive policing. To be fair, sounds good to me! They could eg arrest people before they attend incredibly disruptive weekly marches.

We aren’t because few people put themselves forward, many vacancies for Chief Constable have only 2/3 applicants. It’s an awful, stressful job where you are one decision away from big trouble.

How on earth can you conclude the specifics of the case are a distraction?

Are you happy to have men who threaten to arm themselves and attack random Jews walking your streets? Are you happy to have them around your children?

Which is worse, do you think? Unpleasant slogans and songs, or vicious racists prowling the streets with baseball bats and knives, beating and murdering at will?

Good question.

On another note AI, community tensions, police issue, gov trying to put the blame this is all very current.

Because they are.

You can map the facts of this case - police chief caught in lie - onto any number of recent stories. Not all of which - if any - had the same connection to other much more shouty stories.

I already know police lie and lie about lying and are never held to account. So the more you dig here, the less there is to see.

They can be treated as two separate issues. Police competence and corruption is not new so to my mind it's almost the lesser of the two issues.

The main issue is sectarianism bleeding into areas of public life where it has no place.

I agree with you in part.

Numerous scandals (grooming gangs, Sarah Everard, not investigating crimes unless called out on social media, heavy handed policing of others, and I'm sure lots more) have not been addressed and have ruined public trust in the police. And its therefore not a massive surprise to find they've lied once again.

However, there are other factors which are also important to this case. In my opinion, most important is the way the police allowed one minority to be demonised while ignoring violent threats towards that same minority from others, inflaming community tensions.

Birmingham is very much a divided city and increasingly lawless. Does no one remember the Southport riots and a Muslim mob running riot wielding baseball bats and terrorising local residents who had to barricade themselves inside a pub whilst they attacked innocent passerbys? It only ended when ' community leaders' stepped in to break up the fighting, not the police I may add. Probably not, because it was largely ignored by msm and starmer paid no attention, it didn't fit his narrative. No one wants to address the issue or dare to even mention there may be a problem, but it's increasingly obvious to locals: mob rule applies. Then you have single issue independent mps elected on Gaza platforms who delight in pushing their sectarian views and demands and as in this case, getting away with it. If the police have no authority and are fearful of community repercussions, what hope is there?

This is a senior, experienced and highly skilled police officer (not a data analyst) who took the word of his researcher that AI had not been used when in fact, someone had searched for a piece of information using a browser, and been presented with an answer generated by CoPilot.

When the police officer discovered the error, he immediately issued a statement and informed the govt committee of the error.

Yet you think he should be sacked. That we should throw away all that valuable experience and a man's career because of a technical mistake? I'm assuming you aren't a manager. I'm certainly glad you don't work for me OP. Haven't you ever made a mistake, then realised your error and immediately admitted that fact?

Your perfection must be hard to live with.

Supporting evidence for that?......

Indeed it is, so it's vital that we have quality candidates that have the support of their force and the public they serve not to make 'technical mistakes' for which they must be accountable.

yes, it is the same with lots of miniorty groups who make a LOT of noise about things. At some point people start to think it is a lot of noise to signal and are exasperated with it.

Police drew up false evidence after decision to ban Maccabi Tel Aviv fans

Whole Times investigation about it, covered very thoroughly on today's The Story | The Times and The Sunday Times.

Here's a taster of the article for you:

"The force only produced “significant” and “new” “intelligence” about Maccabi’s fanbase after a Birmingham council staff member confided that they had faced questions and been “asked to obtain” information to pre-empt criticism or claims of “anti-Jewish sentiment”."

"Chief Constable Craig Guildford stood by the allegations even after police in the Netherlands dismissed them as untrue or misleading."

Also Police chief under pressure to resign over Maccabi Tel Aviv fan ban

"Guildford wrote to the committee last month, stating: “We engaged with key community figures such as the chair of Birmingham and West Midlands Jewish Community, Ruth Jacobs.”
He said there was “no documented feedback from Jewish representatives prior to the decision being communicated” in support of the ban but, since then, members of the community had offered their support “in confidence”.
Jacobs has written to Karen Bradley, the committee chairwoman, and Sarah Jones, the policing minister, saying that she was not consulted until after the ban was announced in October and she was unaware of any other Jewish representatives being approached.
Eight Muslim groups, including three who have been accused of hosting antisemitic preachers, were consulted before the ban was imposed on public safety grounds."

So he didn't just take the word of his colleague and then immediately apologise when he discovered the error. He oversaw the deliberate creation of evidence in order to justify a decision he had already taken, due to pressure from Muslim groups. He also lied about having consulted Jewish communities, and lied about the account given by the Amsterdam police. He has also acknowledged that he was aware that there were threats of extreme antisemitic violence made by Muslim groups, which he did not report. Instead, he raised the threat level against Muslims to high, while uncomprehendingly lowering the threat level against Jews and Maccabi fans.

This has been most widely covered by The Times as they led the investigation, but is also on the front page of the BBC, The Guardian etc, which are free to view. The Times podcast I referenced is also free to listen to.

I can't even imagine what news you must be consuming to be under the impression that the only issue is him being mistaken that AI was used?

In the Commons on Monday, the Tory MP Nick Timothy said: “On 7 October, the police told a private meeting that they planned to ban Israeli fans from Villa Park. That was, to quote the minutes, ‘in the absence of intelligence.

“On 9 October, they accepted that they needed to find a clearer rationale for the decision already made. On 16 October, they said they had suddenly found significant intelligence for a ban."

@Meadowfinch do these posts suffice? Or are you suffering from the same confirmation bias and the soon to be Chief Constable?

If not sacked he should be demoted back to being a normal policeman. Something needs to be done about Birmingham with both this and the bin strikes.

Yes, that's why it's so important for those in authority to do their jobs without fear or favour.

Caving in to a particular group and treating them with kid gloves only builds anger towards that group, which is what's happening with the flags as people see what's going on and get fed up with it.

The best quote I've heard on this, which to me sums it up well.

"The forces of the state are doing the bidding of Islamists and extremists who want to destroy our society"

I think unfortunately he does need to go.
I understand that it was a complex and challenging decision at the time. But that makes it all the more important that the evidence used to make the decision is reliable. Using AI information is unacceptable.

Absolutely.
And being unduly influenced by one section of society is not acceptable.