West Midlands Police Chief Constable Should beSacked......

[Ablondiebutagoody]

..... for using fake evidence to justify the ban on Jewish fans from the Aston Villa v Maccabi Tel Aviv match last year. When in reality, the threat was towards those fans from local anti-semites and he just couldn't be arsed to protect them.

It's going to get even worse.

You might also be interested to learn that Young Boys fans (a Swiss team) were allowed to attend a match at Villa Park just a couple of weeks after the Maccabi game and are known for being even more violent. That game had to be stopped due to violence and several fans were arrested.

But hey, they’re not Jewish and I’m sure Ayoub Khan had no issue with them making local Birmingham residents feel ‘unsafe’.

I've read that there was a representative from a local mosque on Chief Constable's interview panel. Were there also representatives from local synagogues/churches? If not, why not?

It’s now understood that little to no engagement took place with Jewish community leaders (whatever a community leader is, not sure there’s any official qualification for that).

The whole thing is rotten. Birmingham sectarianism needs looking at.

I don’t know - this is just the start of bad A.I. info -I doubt the CC himself sat at his laptop doing a google search. Someone would be allotted the task of researching info on the teams and produced this - you’d assume they’d done proper research but hadn’t.

During marches in London I think I remember pro Israeli marchers being cordoned off, advised to stay away from huge pro Palestinian marches. It’s for their own safety. A thousand cops (if they ever have that number) can’t control 10,000 marchers .

Whats the numbers of pro Palestine residents in Brum compared to Jewish people -BIG discrepancy.

I agree that the police had difficult decisions to make as there was a genuine threat of violence (from extremist Birmingham residents).

The problem was they blamed the ban on the violence of the Maccabi fans rather than admit that locals in Birmingham were the ones threatening violence against the Maccabi fans.

I don't suppose the CC himself was doing the googling. The question is how far he was responsible for the environment where that happened. Was the person who did it on a frolic of their own or was it made clear that reasons were to be found to back up a decision already made?

I suspect the sectarianism is in other cities also. Agree it needs addressing.

I agree. What happened in Holland alone was reason to ban them.
However, lying to justify the decision is NOT OK.

but he is the head and that is where the buck stops.
That is why he gets paid the big bucks.

But what really did happen in Holland?

It certainly now appears that the version of events being circulated by WMP and in parts of the media in the days prior to the ban being announced was a load of crock, and perhaps was almost as much a work of fiction as the West Ham fixture.

It's quite clear that a community is running the show in politics and law. That was the plan and Labour have paved the way for it, all for the votes. Good job they've no chance of seeing another term in.

There's clearly a lot of people commenting who don't understand football hooligan culture or the details of what happened in Amsterdam or the relevance of the name Maccabi

The claim that 200 Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are linked to the IDF is also ridiculous without context. Israel has compulsory national service and most serve in the IDF. Most people over the age of 20 will there for be in or have links to the IDF whatever football team they support. I can't see anyone picking up on the fact that many supporters of other teams with a noted history of awful chants and hooligan behaviour will also have links to the military (Greece and Turkey within European games).

Many football teams in Israel use the name Maccabi in their name. It's a biblical reference t and a bit like being having City or United in a team name in England. Which is why people here have managed to confuse two different teams.

Vile chants, assaults are unfortunately part of football for many supporters clubs. It is a known issue and has been since the 70s including many English clubs. The chants about Hillsborough, the behaviour of groups like the Intercity Firm, Chelsea Headhunters and Millwall Bushwhackers. Italy has huge levels of violence between teams as does Greece and Turkey. It's not an Israeli issue, it's a male football fan issue (not all male football fans). That's why banning orders are issued. It's even worse in South and Central America.
I don't personally give a shit about football but did my dissertation on football linked violence

The Dutch police and Holland's mayor have made it perfectly clear that the West Midlands Police have lied about this incident to back up their own bias, including twisting their portrayal of violent acts against Maccabi fans to suggest that the locals were the victims, rather than the aggressors (despite the incidents being caught on video). It is hugely embarassing to have foreign politicians and police writing formal, public declarations saying our own police are liars.

The majority of the violence was found to have been targetted towards the Maccabi fans from the local community, with attacks planned in advance of the fans arrival.

No one is saying that being Jewish allows you to be violent, that's a vile comment. They're saying that you should not be held to a greater or lesser standard based on your ethnicity, something which WMP have failed to apply both to their own community and the visiting fans.

None of that is relevant here.

Agree that an understanding of football culture helps here. I have been to Champions League matches against Turkish teams. Some of the chants and fighting here in Germany was bad enough. In Istanbul it was a whole other, awful, matter.

The point here isn't the fans. Arguably they are violent enough to be banned. That isn't what is going on here - lying by the police is what is going on here. Shaping the crime to fit the punishment, it really is Through The Looking Glass. That and interference by one local group and not others.

Yes, the police need to admit that they can't control the mob. And if there's a conflict of interests between Jews and Muslims, they will always side with the Muslims because there's 10 times as many of them. Or they will side with the protesters because they outnumber the opposition.

All this is bad for community relations and it doesn't really benefit anyone.

This is pure lies and pure anti semitic hate.

Agreed. They should have cracked down on this behaviour. Plenty of evidence that if the law is applied appropriately the first time people are seen to break it, they stop, whereas we have had years of acceptance and now can't control it.

The police and politicians that have allowed this should be removed from their posts but I doubt they'll get more than a verbal reprimand, bringing further shame on this whole situation.

People wonder why Reform are leading the polls but its (partly) because they feel powerless when they watch people break the law and nothing happens. The most basic expectation of our police is that they do their job according to the laws of this country and apply them equally to everyone, irrespective of who they are.

Yes, Muslim 'community leaders' might think what happened was a win for them. But all it does is build resentment which in the long run is bad for everyone.

It really is relevant because shitty behaviour by club supporters is not limited to one Israeli club. Because if MTA are being banned for horrible chants and some fans being absolute dicks then you would see a lot more clubs having fans banned from away games. Some England fans STILL chant 10 German Bombers, there was horrendous racism towards three black England players after the 2020 Euros by England fans.
When a team with known Ultras plays away then it's not uncommon for there to be a police escort to the ground. I see it happen fairly often in Manchester, it also happens for derby games between Newcastle and Sunderland and no doubt between teams in other towns and cities where there is known potential for trouble. I used to date a Bolton Wanderers fan who had been part of the escorted groups when going to away games.
In this case the bigger threat was not from football fans but those who opposed an Israeli team and their supporters from playing full stop and were happy to use violence against them. This was downgraded in the report and WMP provided false information while some Birmingham residents were openly talking about carrying baseball bats around with them. And it wasn't the Jewish Society at the university...

This thread just goes to show how entrenched some people are, and unwilling to consider evidence that challenges their position. The fingers go in the ears and we hear "lalala, hooligans, islamophobia, Gaza, lalala" despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Excellent post. Wider footballing culture does matter here, because that's needed in order to understand that Maccabi Tel Aviv have been treated less favourably. And that's a problem even if one happens to think the police blundered their way to the correct decision.

This is absolutely true. Unfortunately it will help stoke anti Muslim sentiment. No one wins.

Yep.