Wasn't allowed to use disabled toilet despite the fact no other toilet was available. AIBU?

[fakenamefornow]

Seaside town with beach that stretches about 1.5 miles away from town centre with just flats and houses facing beach, ie no pubs or cafés that might let me use the toilet. It's about 10am rainy January morning, nobody else about apart from about two/three people and dogs on the beach.
Half way along on seafront is a public toilet block. Both mens and womens shuttered up and locked. Disabled toilet, locked, had a phone number to call for remote access so they could let people in. Called number and despite me pleading that I was desperate for the loo (I was) and pointing out no others available, I was refused absolutely point blank access because I wasn't disabled.
I don't think this is fair at all, but what do others think?
YANBU - she should have let you in.
YABU - no way should she have let you in regardless of how much you needed the loo.

Agree and it’s not just about common sense it’s about conforming to the building regs

I thought I lived in a really touristy place but even our toilets are open all year! I don’t think it’s countrywide that they close for the winter.

But yeah, this is a changing places toilet. I wouldn’t expect to be let in. You’d hope they’d let you but not expect it.

Further up thread someone has given a map of open public toilets that were 5 mins walk away. These facilities need to be checked and cleaned after EACH use. The OP could have walked the 5 mins to the other facilities.

Can you expand a bit more on the effect on building regs ? Changing places facilities are not accessible toilets and are not interchangeable with them, or with standard facilities as the CP toilet will be an addition, not a stand alone facility. By locking the standard toilets it’s the council who are at fault here because they are effectively making the CP toilet the default for everyone, which is not their purpose - they are a disability specific facility.

And if she couldn’t have held on for a further 5 minutes (because she was not expecting the public toilets to be locked up), is it reasonable to you that she should wet or soil herself?

Council toilets are all usually locked up in winter, ours including disabled are. If people are at risk of 'wetting or soiling' they should ensure they go where facilities are open and available. I have a relative with a medical issue, often needs a bathroom and we never struggle to find one.

Can you just answer the question, please.

Would you prefer someone wet or soil themselves over using a CP toilet?

The same would apply to anyone who needs the toilet. Changing spaces are not toilets for anyone to use if they get caught short. If she has an issue with needing to wee regularly, then she needs to plan her route accordingly. I have kidney issues. I need to go every 30 mins or so. I plan where I go with this in mind. I would never expect to use a special facility like a Changing Space because of an urge to wee.

Again, can you just answer the question please?

Would you prefer someone wet or soil themselves over using a CP toilet in a situation where all other toilets are locked up?

Not always and from what I gather there was not a queue of disabled people waiting to use this particular disabled facility.

As i and others said op had plenty time to argue over the phone and ask for a manager, she could have walked 5 minutes to another toilet, it does sound it was more.a point she was trying to make, she could have been anybody trying to get into the facility. She needs to get onto her local authority about the closed regular toilets.

But it isn't for general use though, it doesn't matter if it was empty.

The updated building regs to include changing places notes
where it should be used large buildings, capacity of etc etc

It also states they are not instead of other toilets , they are provided as supplementary to the others

The building regs also works hand in hand with the Equalities act ( amongst other things) As such to conform to everything you cannot provide one in isolation unless you give access to all
Changing places do not give access to all so other facilities must be open if they are.

Each individual policy and requirement eg laws and regs work in tandem. No one will ever find everything in one building reg note. But councils should know all this just as much as we, as Architects do.

They are saving money by closing public toilets but having an open CP in the location means they have contravened the regs and people’s rights
So, they need to, as a minimum open up
an accessible toilet aswell.

A 5 min walk is not in the same location
( I’m guessing there wasnt a map either because this council sound useless )

I would prefer CP were used by those intended for who have enough to contend with without everyone who is menopausal and has had 3 kids thinks that they're entitled to use them.

Unless you live up a mountain there are supermarkets and cafes in every town with loos widely available. Granted, not on this particular seafront but perhaps she should have gone before going there. Obviously.

Well there soon will be a queue if every Tom Dick and Harry who is caught short thinks CP facilities are for them. They aren't!

They are not but they can only be provided in tandem with facilities for others
If a council believes toilets are needed in a particular location ( for whatever reason and it’s usually due to locational need ) they must accommodate everyone
That’s the regs and EA
This is on the council and OP and everyone else who encounters this has been discriminated against

Well, as someone who has had three children, is post menopausal, has permanent motor nerve damage in my leg following a hip fracture and ensuing surgery, leaving me in a wheelchair, with frequent, painful muscle spasms, swelling in my lower limbs, needing round the clock painkillers, and being unable to stand unsupported for more than a few seconds, I feel more than entitled to use one of these CPs, if they have a toilet with grab bars and rails, essential to enable me to safely transfer from my wheelchair to the toilet, as well as to hold onto with one hand while I pull my pants down and back up again with the other.
And I'll say it again, I'd hold the door open after myself to let someone use it IF THE OTHER TOILETS WERE CLOSED. Which they were. Because there isn't "always" another toilet "five minutes away". But we've been over this, several times. And God forbid that someone might need to use a toilet more than just before leaving home then arriving home afterwards.

It is possible to be both disabled and sympathetic to others need to pee. And when you're desperate, speaking from experience, even a five minutes walk can be immensely uncomfortable.

I've encountered both instances where the "standard" men's and women's toilets were closed but the accessible toilet open to all, thus serving as the only toilet, for everyone. Other times the standard toilets were locked and the accessible toilet only entered with a radar key. There doesn't seem to be any logic to it.

Accessible toilets are there for everyone
I know people think they are just for the disabled people of those with children etc but that’s just not the case

Councils have no money and we are seeing the effect of this in many ways

Yes, that's my point. When they're only opened by radar key then they're clearly not accessible to all. And yes, massive cutbacks - I've seen so many public toilets closed permanently over the last thirty odd years.

Yeah I think we have got that message!

Oh agree masses have closed
Now we are forced to buy a coffee on b….. Starbucks in order to justify the right to a wee
Fare enough private businesses shouldn’t have to clean up after randoms off the street
but we all know not everyone can hold it in ….pregnant women, those who’ve had kids and anyone with incontinence and desperate for a wee or a clean up are stuck with nothing

To the poster who said there’s a supermarket etc on every high street No there isn’t. I assure you

To the poster who said go before you leave the house No that’s not how it works

rant over

Have you ever considered how the thousands of disabled people who need this type of facilitiy cope, given there must be a few thousand public toilets or toilets within buildings for every one of these specialist Changing Places style facilities. Who helps these people out when they are desperate?

I went to a hospital for an appointment with my disabled niece (a grown woman), accessible toilets are no good for her, she needs to be changed but she is an adult and most public bathroom floors are not suitable for this due to size and poor cleaning. Even in the hospital there were no suitable facilities for her as a visitor, she had to use incontinence wear for the day. That is not acceptable and these changing places are a life line to people like her.

My Changing Place has a cleaning facility too (shower with hoist etc) because when I got married we couldn't find a hotel where my niece could shower etc so we took her to the local changing place.

She doesn't have the option to pee on a beach or nip into the mens. Maybe the woman in question should try incontinence wear like my niece must resort to when she is out.

Its not nice is it, and yes it does sound disrespectful but its the grim reality of disabled facilities in this country and when there are adequate facilities for all, ,then you can share when needed.

Two wrongs don’t make a right