To find it hard to care about men's issues

[Parsleyforme]

Men's cancer, diseases and suicide I do care about, but I am really struggling to care about the other modern problems of modern men.

My brother says that the modern men of today are very confused about who they should be and how they should act and that is giving them all identity crises and/or midlife crises, depending on their ages. Things like they get told that men as a whole are bad, they don't know who they are as a man anymore, they don't know how much they should show their feelings, they feel guilt even if they're a good man, they don't know what they're supposed to bring to relationships anymore etc. etc.

I'm finding it quite hard work enough to be a woman without having to worry about or really hear about men's issues as well. And I'm actually quite frustrated that I'm being expected to provide a understanding and sympathetic ear. I went to a girl's school and when I left Barbieland I had to pretty quickly catch on that lotss of men are creeps and women aren't actually at the top of any industry or even their own relationships. It actually angers me a bit that I'm expected to feel something for the men who are feeling unsettled when all we've really managed is to get them to stop wolf-whistling at us or sacking us if we get pregnant.

AIBU to feel like this? WIBU to say I don't really have the bandwidth (read:patience) for this and maybe he should talk to some men who can empathise rather than a woman?

Well you don’t really need to worry about them, but then writing them off is the same as a man saying menopause- so what?! We all should realise our hormones and bodies work against us later in life so we can’t do life as easily as when we’re younger and not assume everyone else is just being difficult!!

Interesting. Can you tell me more about this? What does it mean-how are you defining misandry? How are you backing up that “many”?

I think that’s a really interesting answer, and I acknowledge that very bad men create some systemic advantages for median/good men. (Though I’m unclear how your claim about the legal system works).

But I’m unconvinced that those systemic advantages outweigh two big harms from bad men (which fall on everyone including men): i) the direct harms of violence, crime, etc, and ii) the systemic harms, which are absolutely legion. A massive proportion of the rules and restrictions we all face, and the taxes we all pay, exist because of the behaviours of the very worst people.

Having less competition for a job that involves going out at night is poor compensation for all that.

This isn’t an argument that men suffer more from the worst men than women do. But it is a claim that men suffer more than men benefit from the worst men.

If there were a proposal to permanently incarcerate, without tax cost, the worst 2% of people (or the worst 4% of men, which would be almost the same group), how many men do you think would be saying “no, let’s keep them around, think of all the benefits they bring us”? I think almost none.

I have three sons, so yes I care. I think the constant pressure on men to be strong and valiant is tough. I’m glad it’s slowly changing through things like Andy’s Men’s Club but still a long way to go. They’re often unable to express their emotions to friends in the way women can freely so it gets trapped inside until they explode.

I also think if we don’t care about boys, we will inevitably damage females down the line. They both need equal care and time for different reasons.

The main advantage is that women are scared and scared. Women think they need men to protect them and yet we all know factually that you’re more likely to be helped by a woman in a bad situation then you are a man.
But the perception is still strongly pushed by media filmmakers, etc
I agree I think it’s a society despite gender. Everybody would want the worst two or 4% of people Criminals locked up forever ideally removed it tends to be women that call for the death penalty more than men because they know that they probably wouldn’t be affected by it.

On women being scared, I just don’t think that outweighs all the other harms to men from bad men.

On strangers helping, that seems to depend what type of bad situation it is. Men are more likely to help with practical or dangerous things it seems, and are more likely to help women than to help men.

On the death penalty, men seem to be consistently more in favour than women. I doubt that many people’s vote is swayed by the thought that they themselves may be at risk though.

Interesting that in medieval Europe about 1% of people per decade tended to be killed (large majority being men), between murders and judicial killings. I wonder if that served the function of getting rid of many of the most volatile people, in a way we don’t have today.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
misandry
/mɪˈsandri/
noun
dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex)

There is clear contempt and dislike of men all over this thread, and on the feminism board here. It is a well known phenomenon that men are disliked by many posters on Mumsnet, it is regularly pointed out on numerous threads. The fact that this misandry is being dismissed as not misandry but feminism demonstrates the overlap. I know many reasonable women who believe in equality for all but don't want to be labelled as feminists because many of the loud feminists are very open misandrists and are horrible even to other women who don't agree with their views. Unfortunately the few angry loud ones make more reasonable people not want to be associated with the label of feminist.

No, I won't be copying and pasting endless posts to provide you with enough evidence for you to agree that it is "many" as it is a total waste of my time. If you deny there is clear contempt for men on this thread, as you are doing, you simply don't want to see it and me wasting a few hours won't change that. However, it is clear to other posters as quite a few have pointed it out, they have clearly noticed what you are trying to deny.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter that you are trying to label everyone who recognises misandry here a misogynist who doesn't understand feminism. It is being called out by several posters, none of them clear misogynists. People reading the thread will see that and will know that actually they aren't misogynists for not agreeing with some of the vile statements made here and that is the important thing, not whether you change your mind or not.

I think we agree 😉 As you said in your earlier post it doesn’t mean it’s all men though.

I agree some of the comments here are disgraceful.

Again, when an educated intelligent woman climbs the corporate ladder. And doesn’t conform to society’s versions of success by marrying and having children that’s used by men to deter other females from following the same path.

This! This is the current discourse at the moment. The whole lonely crazy cat woman trope. Men trying to convince women they should have children and be home makers, not because they want women to have that choice and support them, but because they want to trap women into a life where it’s easier to control them.

I agree it’s not all men. I think men are more variable in general. At the very top of things they’ve been responsible for most technological progress that has lifted us from penury. At the bottom they are invariably the ones causing misery and death, as a permanent tax to be paid.

(I suspect only half of that view will win many fans on MN!)

At the very top of things they’ve been responsible for most technological progress that has lifted us from penury

Only because women weren’t allowed or were trapped in home carer roles while men were free to think explore and invent.

But can you and @YourBreezyBiscuit at least accept that there are so many really basic things that men could change to make themselves better which would ease the 'male loneliness epidemic'? You are so busy defending them that you do not seem to want to acknowledge that we live in a different world now - and women have adapted, while men have not. Why is that? Why can they not accept that women no longer depend on them financially and that therefore the balance in relationships has changed?

Oppenheimer was a cheating husband, Charles Dickens abandoned his wife and his 10 children
Even though so-called good ones don’t seem to be able to manage to tick every box

And of course the men literally stole the women’s work and took credit for it

No if you read back the comments here some are just hateful

That’s a big part of it, yes.

While I’m in a masochistic mood though: men also hugely outnumber women at the extreme top and bottom of tested IQ. That would also explain the same pattern.

SFW?

look it up in the dictionary and then read the thread back?

No idea what that means?

Agree. Being very talented doesn’t make one morally good.

I’m I’m not defending them. Read my reply again. I’ve been doing the opposite on this thread.

In general I agree OP.
When 3 men a week are murdered by women I’ll prioritise male issues on an equal footing.
Men are doing very nicely compared to women and are in a much better position, thanks to centuries of male supremacy, to advocate for themselves so I will concentrate my efforts on those who need my support the most.
Of course I don’t dislike all men but even just from those limited pool who I know personally the proportion of decency vs lazy/ controlling/ bullying/ sleazy sex pest (tick as appropriate) is very much tipped into the negative.

Apologies. I thought It was more widely known: So Fucking What.

Lots of women really really don't like men at all, though I'm not sure that is what you have inferred rather then what was stated or implied as you don't cite evidence.

Well most men don’t care about womens issues let’s be honest. Sometimes you don’t have as much empathy for problems that don’t affect you personally.