To be frustrated that DD is struggling to find a job in her desired field while her friends on skilled worker visas aren’t

[Andiessock]

My DD is in her mid 20s, she graduated with a masters in philosophy over 2 years ago now from a top university in London, she has a BA from a top university as well. Her two closest friends during her masters weren’t British.
DD struggled to find a job directly related to philosophy or even culture in general, she did manage to get a job in the civil service but she doesn’t enjoy it at all.
Her two friends both managed to get jobs in the field they desired originally on graduate visas, now both are sponsored on skilled worker visas.
One works at cultural institute associated with her home country in programme coordination so planning and running events that promote her countries culture etc. specifically in literature and philosophy.
The other works at a non-profit cultural institution in a similar role to her other friend but a little more research heavy less events centred.

First of all I’m not entirely sure how either of these roles fall under “skilled workers”, they must be making around 40k to even qualify and whilst I understand the first friend being preferred over a British national since it’s a cultural institution, I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Im all for migrants for what it’s worth, this is not intended to be slanderous to migrants, especially in industries which need the talent from abroad; but I don’t see how that applies here and in this case it does feel like “foreigners are stealing British jobs” (not a sentiment I typically agree with or would use any other time). That’s not to mention that I’m not even sure how these roles qualify as skilled workers in the first place.

AIBU to find this incredibly frustrating?

I have a degree and masters in philosophy. Unless your DD either has a specialist or something unique she can bring that sets her apart (her friends have got specialist knowledge in their culture that got them their roles) then she needs to do a PhD and commit to academia. No one does philosophy thinking there will be jobs at the end of it. Do it because its your calling, and make academia your job or accept that you are unlikely to 'work' in this field. You haven't said what role your DD works in the civil service, but if she comes from a moral or analytical philosophy side and enjoys tech, she could study AI and data ethics. Many companies are hiring for this specialist role and she could make a great career in it with her background.

That is interesting. Maybe you can help me understand then as I’ll be honest I don’t (I’m not being intentionally ignorant).
Her first friend is French and works at a French institute, went to a prestigious French university for her undergraduate. I can see why they would pick her for this role.
What I don’t understand is her other friend is from a Scandinavian country, works at a British cultural/intellectual institution (think like the Royal Society of Arts or Institute of Arts and Ideas), what specialist knowledge would she have that would be useful to them over a Brit?
I do see the link more in the first friend’s situation but less so in the second.

They have a masters in the subject, im not sure what more qualifications you'd want for a skilled worker, can you clarify?
And people are directed to hire the best person for the job... are you saying thats not whats happened here? That both of these roles were designed in a way that non British people (also are we talking passport holders or what) wouldnt be considered for them if they applied? That in the first instance, a British person who was more qualified and knowledgeable about the country in question has been turned down because they arent from that country in favour of a lesson qualified person?
Im really not sure how your daughter not getting a job is leading you to believe there's something fishy going on with the other two jobs, surely you must realise that as her parent, who has never hired her for a job....you arent going to be the most subjective judge on how she interviews....

No worries at all, its a weird old world in philosophy! It will likely be what her friend specialised in. She may have focused on aesthetics and the philosophy of art. She may have been published on a subject and that impressed the institute. Philosophy breaks down into so many categories. I'd love to hear what your DDs focus was, that might help think of other routes into interesting careers. Unfortunately academia is also very hard to break into, so a PhD is not a guarantee of a job sadly.

Well did you even bother to see what jobs do qualify before leaping to the ‘foreigners stealing our jobs’ trope? Historians and social scientists are designated highly skilled, as are heritage officers, PR officers and arts officers - which presumably they’ll be classed as. So yes YABU - sounds like sour grapes.
Lots of grads would give their eye teeth to get into the CS btw….She may not like her current role, but there are plenty of options for sideways moves into something closer to what she’d prefer.

So if all the well-qualified British philosophy grads were kicked out of the foreign countries they've settled in and came to give your daughter some homegrown competition for jobs, would that be better?

Philosophy is a worldwide enterprise driven by exchange which is choked by borders. I have no doubt your daughter knows this.

she might be better off working for a British company promoting the culture and philosophy abroad. As that’s what the others are doing.

the jobs in the field she is looking for will be limited and I doubt the ones who do them leave very often because they’re so limited. Lost of graduate don’t get jobs in their field first off. Such is life.

I may be mistaken as I can’t say I’m particularly clued up on immigration law, but I was under the impression that the skilled worker visa wasn’t related to how educated you were in the field but more so on talent gaps and job demand, along with the skill level required to do the jobs. Since there are many philosophy grads in the UK already who don’t have work in the field I wouldn’t have thought it would be classed as skilled enough or in demand enough to qualify. I’m also a little surprised they make enough to qualify.

Im not suggesting the employers are doing anything wrong per se, just shocked that it qualifies.

I understand more in the case of language and cultural fluency being required for the first friends role.

Just seen your second response - im not sure what you are saying, being born British doesnt mean you will automatically know more about a British cultural institution than any non Brit?

It’s the role that’s designated as highly skilled, not the person doing it. Clearly the role qualified as ‘highly skilled’ and they were the best applicants.

Maybe her other friend got a better grade on their BA and MA degree courses? Maybe their elective modules align more with the institute? Maybe she did a work placement or internship or did research that was in an area they are currently interested in?

Jobs are not handed out based on nationality and degree only. There are numerous factors that go into selecting an employee.

I do sympathise with your DD, but I agree with the pp, that to get a well paid job with progression in the field, it’s going to be academia which means a PhD. To go from MA to PhD, especially a funded PhD, lots of interim boxes need to be ticked.

The civil service isn’t a bad job, and they do have career brooding opportunities where you can seconded to other jobs or even sign up for cheap classes to then transfer to a different job. If she is unhappy with her current job, she could look into moving within the civil service.

Hopefully she is more philosophical about it than her mother.

My dd has a 1st in Philosophy and Theology. She didn’t expect to get a job in the subject. Did your dd?

It does seem unfair @Andiessock

Sorry OP. You are obviously a proud mum of a high achieving daughter. But she’s studied in a niche area, and I can’t imagine there are too many employment opportunities. Only a small number will find a relevant career, and only an even smaller number would find a job with a salary average-Mumsnet would find acceptable. If she went to a top London uni, she has lots of other options. Disclaimer: I know nothing about philosophy, but this applies to lots of these kind of degrees.

Ah that is interesting, DD specialised in Epistemology/Meta-ethics. I’m not sure what her friends did.

Maybe she’s not as strong as her friends academically (and the same grade doesn’t necessarily mean she is).
Maybe you being just a tiny bit racist.

Is she absolutely sure they are on skilled worker visas? They are both European and if they began their studies before the relevant date may have pre-settled status or settled status by now, which would mean they have unrestricted access to the job market.

OP is right that the skilled worker visa only applies to certain jobs. The list is via this link: www.gov.uk/skilled-worker-visa/your-job

Oh my gosh with that background get her into data ethics!!! It will be such an important and interesting career and she sounds perfect for it!

Maybe she's just.... Better at the job

Definitely both skilled workers, both did their undergrads elsewhere and only moved to London for masters which was the 2022-2023 year so after the settlement scheme timeframe.

Maybe they interviewed better than she did? It happens.

You are being not only unreasonable but also racist. You are stating you believe her friends should not have got their jobs because they are “foreign”.

Maybe your daughter just interviews badly?! Her job situation has nothing to do with the nationality of her friends.

Thisnis the civil service framework for the role: https://ddat-capability-framework.service.gov.uk/role/data-ethicist

She'll need to learn how machine learning and AI work inside the box, but there are lots of short courses for that and for data ethics.