To be frustrated that DD is struggling to find a job in her desired field while her friends on skilled worker visas aren’t

[Andiessock]

My DD is in her mid 20s, she graduated with a masters in philosophy over 2 years ago now from a top university in London, she has a BA from a top university as well. Her two closest friends during her masters weren’t British.
DD struggled to find a job directly related to philosophy or even culture in general, she did manage to get a job in the civil service but she doesn’t enjoy it at all.
Her two friends both managed to get jobs in the field they desired originally on graduate visas, now both are sponsored on skilled worker visas.
One works at cultural institute associated with her home country in programme coordination so planning and running events that promote her countries culture etc. specifically in literature and philosophy.
The other works at a non-profit cultural institution in a similar role to her other friend but a little more research heavy less events centred.

First of all I’m not entirely sure how either of these roles fall under “skilled workers”, they must be making around 40k to even qualify and whilst I understand the first friend being preferred over a British national since it’s a cultural institution, I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Im all for migrants for what it’s worth, this is not intended to be slanderous to migrants, especially in industries which need the talent from abroad; but I don’t see how that applies here and in this case it does feel like “foreigners are stealing British jobs” (not a sentiment I typically agree with or would use any other time). That’s not to mention that I’m not even sure how these roles qualify as skilled workers in the first place.

AIBU to find this incredibly frustrating?

You and your daughter are far too focused on how other people have got the jobs rather than why your daughter isn’t getting the jobs. Change your perspective so that she can become a better candidate.

Immigrants tend to have a hustler mentality when they’re seeking work. There is so much riding on it. You and DD sound incredibly privileged and clearly have plenty of time to dissect the careers of others, move that energy into getting feedback from places she interviewed to figure out where she can improve.

When I interviewed grads - their performance at interviews differed wildly and was often surprising given their CVs. One young man with a first, couldn’t speak he was so nervous, the interview lasted 10 long mins. If I could tell from a cv how well someone would perform at interview I’d have saved a lots of time. Interpersonal skills are often underplayed by many grads, the OP has not described any skills or attributes her dd has that would have put her at the front of the selection- it’s not all about academic qualifications.

I want to think that these two roles those friends have are paid by the country/ countries from said cultures, not by UK. So it is not British jobs going to foreigners really. They do have a first hand of said cultures.
Your daughter would have the same opportunities if she lived abroad and taught at an International School or promoted UK via the embassy there or related organisations. I do not think you can compare.
It would not be the same if her friends had hot a job in the Civil Service or Home 0ffice or local Museum and yours were unemployed. That would not make sense to me. But working for institutions that are related directly to their mother culture, that makes some sense to me....

Foreign-born people already have a foot up on native-born people by sheer willpower and determination. It takes a lot to migrate - I have done it twice.

Moving countries takes a lot of organisational and communicative skills, which, alone, will have first generation immigrants stand out. The added ability to communicate in a second language to masters levels is not simply a desirable skill, it also demonstrates a good work ethic (because learning languages to that level is hard work and takes an awful lot of perseverance). So, before even counting in work experience and additional cultural experience, anyone who manages to pull off a masters-equivalent degree in any foreign country has demonstarted a range of soft skills, which instantly make them more employable.

Add to that the necessary financial aspects (both for gaining a degree as an overseas student here and for the move itself), often taken care of by working as a school student and then again during university and likely networking skills (because socially, emigrating is very isolating) and you can easily see why migrants are desirable employees. They're harder to employ (due to, e.g., immigration status checks, which are a legal requirement for all employers), but more desirable.

Native-born people fresh out of university have a lot to compete with. It used to be mostly locals, then a more nationwide net, now it's a whole world full of capable people. It's what I keep trying to tell youngsters, but it's so much easier to simply ignore the added abilities migrants demonstrate and blame other employer motives instead.

Perhaps prejudiced and intolerant might be a more accurate way of putting it yes.

This.

OP is this your DD’s thinking too?

I remember an employer telling me as well that he enjoyed interviews with young people who have travelled - students who have travelled on a gap year or such; or people who lived/worked overseas... Apparently the international experience/diverse perspective/independence etc offered more innovative ideas and greater competition.
All industries are global now too, so it makes sense.

Why wouldn't she touch law, as a matter of interest? It's hardly under-stimulating intellectually, and covers a very wide range.

Agree with all this. You need a lot of self motivation and perseverance to move countries to work. Those qualities show in all aspects of life, education and employment, not just in the practicalities of moving and they often have stand out CVs. Living and working abroad is eye catching and you get a variety of experiences that you don’t get staying in your home country - I’d always recommend to students to do a year abroad to give yourself an edge.

“I’m all for migrants… so long as they don’t outdo my daughter…”
🤭

As an aside, “Like hens’ teeth” means something is very rare because hens don’t have teeth. I think you used the wrong analogy as you likened an abundance of home graduates to hens’ teeth. Not being snarky, just letting you know.

I have a degree in philosophy and I work in the media /journalism. (It's a common degree among journalists)

I think your mistake is thinking academic success has much to do with getting a job

Think how many incredibly bright graduates there are.....a lot !

Life isn't always fair snd people get jobs first so many various reasons.

Being bitter and comparing yourself to others never ends well

Your daughter needs to work out her passion and follow it.

Ive never thought of my degree being in the slightest bit interesting to employers tbh !

Also - we live in a highly multicultural/ high fluidity world op! People who are bright rightly want to choose where they work!

Look around Europe - you will see people who cross borders frequently for work - that was the complete norm when we were part of the EU and it made us a wealthier happier nation.

I also really agree with other posters who pointed out how impressive it is to employers when someone speaks multiple languages to a very high level.

You could be working class and point out that people who speak nicely and have private school backgrounds get more jobs in the UK (and you would be right) - you could point out that southern accents are treated with more respect - a young black man from hackney is going to find it harder to get a job than a young white woman from the home counties with a grammar school educatino- even though he might be just as intelligent and hard working.

there are SO many inequalities in this world

your daughter needs to focus on what she wants her life to look like - I can tell you nobody cares that she has an MA in philosophy - it's one of those niche academic subjects that has no interest to most people.

You’re comparing apples and oranges and expecting the same result.

Your daughter did a very specialist subject with limited vocational purpose beyond research and ethics, her friends I assume did degrees relating to their own interests and it turns out their interests and qualifications line them up for jobs relevant to their studies and experience. You can’t get bitter that they got jobs in different fields for which they are very qualified and your daughter didn’t.

The jobs market is ruthless right now for everyone. Celebrate your daughter’s friends being able to get work, many of the young people I graduated with are working part time in hospitality despite being highly educated and skilled. They are both UK citizens and people
here on a post grad visa alike. All depressed at lack of opportunity. I’m older and in the same boat. I have a lifetime of skills experience and qualifications but there’s no point blaming foreign workers because the problem
is governments and corporations destroying economies and opportunities not the staff.

I’m pretty sure the criteria for employing someone on a skilled worker visa is a) the role is skilled and b) they were the best applicant. There is no requirement on employers to favour U.K. applicants or to ‘prove’ that there’s no qualified U.K. grads at all before they hire someone who needs a visa.

From my own experience we interview & select best candidates & only then look at whether they need a visa.

100% this. Stop focusing on all them greedy forriners and think about why your DD may not have the edge in a very competitive market. Could be anything really. Better qualifications, more global experience/multiple languages, maybe your DD interviews like a wet wipe 🤷‍♀️

You’re getting flamed by politically correct, permanently outraged people but it’s true. British people are at a disadvantage and seen as inferior to foreigners.

Sorry but I think you need to give your head a a wobble - you are literally asking a global website to help you understand why one of your daughters friends was given a job because in your opinion since she was not British why did it go to her instead of someone British. Who the hell knows the individual circumstances of this persons employment? And just because your daughter is British doesn’t mean she’s enployable no matter how many degrees she has - she might be missing some obvious people skills or whatever.
My daughter studied philosophy - it’s a subject of passion not a vocation you don’t leave with an obvious career path.

As someone with a parallel study and professional area (the arts) I can tell you networking and connections counts for a lot as time goes on. Those coursemates you are getting sniffy about (and potentially even prompting your daughter to feel similarly) are going to be the ones she may well want to be hitting up for information when a future vacancy comes up in their organisations, or there’s a funding opportunity they have some connection to, or they are looking for collaborators on a new programme of events. When jobs are scarcer, networks mean a lot and it’s a fool’s errand to start burning bridges straight out of your degree through bitterness or any sense of entitlement.

🙄 this just absolutely smacks of ignorance and xenophobia

They may both have a masters in the same subject but within that they will have each done their own thesis on vastly different subjects, so that's how one person might be better suited to a role than another. Plus there are many other skills, soft skills, communication etc that go into getting a job, not just your qualifications.

The fact that you just jump to an immigrant getting a job over your daughter as if there are no other factors, what on earth. You say you're all for migration but clearly not in your back yard eh?

Did your daughter also apply for the 2nd friend's job? She can't be considered for a position she didn't apply for.

I'm really surprised you're not getting more support OP.
I'm 100% with you, if there was a job your daughter was qualified and capable of doing (as it sounds like the second job was), it should never have been open to applications from non British candidates.
It shouldn't matter how 'highly skilled' a job is, only whether or not there are British people who want and are able to do the job.
If there are, then immigrants shouldn't be able to apply. Even if they have more relevant experience/are 'better' qualified than British candidates. If we open up jobs, especially career entry jobs, to the 'best' candidates from the entire world, British people will be disadvantaged as they won't get the opportunities necessary to develop their skills.
This is exactly what has happened in medical training. We have allowed lots of foreign doctors to work here and let them apply for specialty training. Often they are more experienced than British doctors at the same training level which gives them an advantage in the recruitment process. So they get appointed and trained and a British doctor can't get a job. (Even though the majority of British patients would actually prefer a British doctor due to it generally being easier to communicate with a native English speaker with shared cultural understanding).

What's crazy is saying that jobs in Britain, including entry level jobs that will give young graduates the opportunities to build skills and develop careers, should be open to anyone from anywhere.
We have a population of nearly 70million. It's racist to see that we don't have enough talented people to take ALL the jobs, given the right training and opportunities.

This is the problem.

If everyone did this then Brits would have no opportunities to work abroad either. There’s a lot to be gained for institutions that employ across boarders.

I don’t know about the doctor example - I agree it’s a shame is local doctors are missing opportunities because of doctors employed from abroad - given the cost to train them and the cap on medical students surely this is self-defeating. On the other hand, isn’t employing more experienced doctors at a junior level also a positive for patients?