Ice agent shoots woman in the face (pt 2)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

Renee Good. Proof the you can shoot someone and get away with it in Trump’s America.

Because she wasn’t shot for obstructing a highway. That isn’t a legitimate sentence for obstructing a highway in the USA. Legally that’s not what happened.

She was shot by a rogue officer, at whom her car was (slowly and likely not deliberately from what I can see) moving toward him, and that officer was previously dragged 100 feet by a car and seriously injured in the past. I would be surprised if he doesn’t have PTSD which caused this enormous and fatal overreaction.

If the punishment for holding up a highway is to be shot in the USA, we would have a lot more of these.

I wonder what they actually mean with the Left

Anyone who isn't maga?

What’s meant by MAGA? Anyone that isn’t left?

Best ring JD Vance up I'm sure he'd welcome your expert opinion, or perhaps they'll go on footage and facts..

A question regarding this:

Immigration agents also can arrest citizenswho allegedly interfered with or assaulted officers. We compiled cases of about 130 Americans, including a dozen elected officials, accused of assaulting or impeding officers

What redress do USA citizens have when they are verbally abused/assaulted by ICE when they are exercising their right to protest what they perceive as undemocratic process?

The video evidence shows Renee wasn’t interfering nor did she assault the ICE person. They chose to interfere and assaulted her -with no justification.

The only justification I can think of for shooting anyone at all is to prevent them from injuring or killing others.

Apparently yes. Anyone who sees this for what is is a tragic incident is a FAR RIGHT MAGA Trump cheerleader. That's the level of debate.

Was the shooting a reasonable or unreasonable response by the officer and was the threat to his life real or not.

This part is the only relevant bit of your post @1dayatatime , and the answer is it was not a reasonable response, and the only threat to life came from ICE.

Every other point in the debate is just noise, really; however, I will keep pointing out that Trump is spreading misinformation about the victim and stating "facts" with no proof because he is a) using it as an excuse for the murder of an innocent woman. Regardless of why she was there, shooting her was neither proportional nor legal. It doesn't matter whether she was there to rescue kittens or on her way to a bank robbery; it was murder. And b) it does not sit right with me that a country leader is calling a bereaved family liars in an attempt to justify murder.

Thank god there is footage of this. Imagine all of those times when an innocent person has been harmed and the culprit has got away scott-free simply because it wasn't filmed. You have the American institutions and government outright telling you not to believe what you can see in front of you with your own eyes.

Trump supporters, Make America Great Again.

Can you explain what you mean with The Left?

Even the Dems wouldn't be classed as left in the UK.

We can argue about whether or not it was peaceful. I would agree that it probably isn't legal to block federal agents from carrying out their work. That doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't peaceful. There is no evidence that she was intending to cause harm to anyone, as you yourself have acknowledged.

Her death may well have been a direct consequence of her actions insofaras she would not have been shot if she hadn't left the house that morning and gone to that particular part of town. However, even if it's true that she was engaged in a non-violent protest which may or may not have included illegally obstructing federal agents from doing their work, surely you would agree it was not reasonably foreseeable that she would be summarily executed in response to such actions?

There is a distinct flavour of certain posters trying to suggest that Renee Good was somehow responsible for her own death because she may have had the temerity to protest against something which she was concerned about. Is that really the kind of society that the US has now become?

Here are pictures showing the position of the shooter when each shot was fired. Does he look in danger to you? For me absolutely not, not even when he fired shot 1.

And this is a sophisticated level of 'debate'?

Best ring JD Vance up I'm sure he'd welcome your expert opinion, or perhaps they'll go on footage and facts..

Also, are you writing in chatgpt to craft these interesting posts?

Fantastic work by the New York Times. Very clear and factual. Obviously horrifically disturbing as it makes clear how appalling this murder was.
I’m also interested in the words and actions of the other officers. I have been trained in deescalation strategies. They are doing everything wrong if the hope is to end this without violence. Since she was not at risk of harming them, they should have calmly offered their names, asked her to talk with them and explain they need to get through. Then later asked her to get out of the car (or to move the car - I’m not clear if there was even a crime being committed at this point). Instead in the space of a few seconds they walk aggressively up to the car, shout repeatedly “get out of the car” whilst continuing to walk aggressively toward her, then “get out of the fucking car”, then pull at the door handle. She attempts to move the car (with actually moments before they had asked her to) and is shot point blank in the head. She had every reason to feel very afraid.

Birth lottery was meant in terms of randomness/chance/lack of choice, not preordained souls -because that wouldn’t be a lottery would it?

But you could not have been born in any other country but this one. You are the product, maybe the weight, of all the decisions and actions of your ancestors. It’s culminates in you. The way you think, feel and act is all a product of this.

In addition you are making assumptions about your ancestors and their hard work leading to your experience of privilege re people you know nothing about and their ancestor’s efforts

In 250 years they created a modern, developed country out of nothing. I think that’s pretty cool tbh.

One point of consideration may be - why do you think your inherited wealth/privilege puts you in a morally superior position and then claim you have made a life based on your own efforts

Who is talking about ‘morally superior’? Being an American is not a point of ‘wealth or privilege’ and its strange you believe that

The thing about the right whinge is they're just massive fucking hypocrites.

JSO protestors deserve everything they get, including prison and run over, for blocking roads but farmers are justified and fully supported for doing the same thing.

The reaction to Charlie Kirk's murder from the left was abhorrent and despicable but it's perfectly ok to be callous and gleeful at a woman being executed because she was a lefty.

Governments are tyrannical dictatorships for punishing hate speech but when it comes to arresting and deporting people without due processes, that's quite alright thank you.

If they genuinely can't see their hypocrisy then there's genuinely something wrong with the way their minds work.

I honestly cannot believe there are people so fucking blind in this world.

Its like a bad parody

Remember that Hitler was democratically elected and the SS was “acting under orders”. Morality must be something you know within you and sometimes that means having the courage to stand up to people in authority when they do something morally wrong. We must allow for that in a democracy.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Right whinge?

Who has been callous or gleeful about this incident?

Thank you for the images. If the ICE officer genuinely feared for his life, he would have moved out of the vehicle’s path rather than standing directly in front of it while drawing his weapon, especially given that the car would almost certainly have struck him after shooting Renee. This is an Iraq veteran and he would certainly have been trained to side step danger. So he did side step and then executed her.

It's utterly appalling and oh so Trumpian.

Then why keep going back to her protesting? its irrelevant.

Similar to saying "oh absolutely you should NOT have been raped but if you will walk home alone at night..."

The focus should be on the actions of the iCE agent, not this continual referencing to her "protesting" if thats even what it was...

He acted illegally, against state law as a pp explained earlier, failure to stop is not an excuse to use a firearm, unless in exceptional circumstances, even if she was using her vehicle to harm(she clearly was not) other methods should be used, inc stepping aside.

...to the other pp, no she clearly wasn't a rapist

The videos are clear that she wasn't presenting any threat. If the ICE Officer's response was a wildly misjudged panic reaction because of PTSD arising from a previous incident, then that might be understandable on an individual level, but then there are surely serious questions about why the fuck anyone would ever allow a mentally disturbed officer to carry fire arms in the first place or put them into that kind of situation.

If PTSD is found to be a factor in this case, then I would expect his superior officers to be facing charges of criminal negligence.

In 250 years, they created a modern, developed country out of nothing. I think that’s pretty cool tbh.

No, they stole land from native people while raping and murdering them. Obviously, this is not the fault of Americans alive today, and other countries, including the UK, have an equally troubling history, but the fact that this invasion and the eradication of natives in the US is still celebrated makes me uncomfortable.

America was not created; it was taken, by force, from native Americans.

The idea that the US is a modern, developed country when it still celebrates the annihilation of its own people, and people are lawlessly gunning each other down on a daily basis, is a bit of a stretch, imo, but that's my opinion, not a fact.

There’s the left and the Left.

The equivalent of MAGA left are ruled not by principle but by hatred. Hence they argue passionately to put male rapists in women’s prisons, in defence of authoritarian regimes overseas (Iran, Venezuela, Russia), and think it’s morally reprehensible to kill a mass murderer via the death penalty but see the killing of innocent unborn humans as fine and even desirable.

They're not lead by their love of anything, but their absolute loathing of Trump/Tories/Farage, they will unquestioningly and without any deep thought leap to whatever side is not their side (even if it’s a dictator, or killed, or rapist).

Odd bunch of people.

I don’t believe in the death penalty btw and know many people on the left spectrum are not as described above. But you can spot the ones who are.

This is the problem isn’t it.

I would detest to have to choose between MAGA Republicans or Democrats like Tim Waltz or the now Mayor of NY and his chosen aid who said owning a house is racist and fuels white supremacy.