Ice agent shoots woman in the face (pt 2)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

Renee Good. Proof the you can shoot someone and get away with it in Trump’s America.

Gloriia
"Best ring JD Vance up I'm sure he'd welcome your expert opinion, or perhaps they'll go on footage and facts.."

Good God- They walk amongst us.

She should have just got out of the car when asked to do so. She wouldn’t have hit the agent. She’d still be alive.

I don’t think she thought she was in any danger. She wasn’t thinking straight and she put not just herself but others in danger as well. Tragic—people need to leave ICE alone but you can be sure that anti-ICE protesters will double down

Scary isnt it.

Just like the gestapo was left alone? Yeah they should do that. Good plan.

You realise you can apply everything here to the other 'side' too?

This binary bullshit is the problem.

This polarisation is unhelpful.
I don't believe men can become women or should be in women's spaces.
I do believe in women's right to choose and I don't care about the rights of foetuses ( or as you call them the innocent unborn)
I think Maduro was a dictator but Venezuala was invaded entirely for oil. Let's not blather about human rights. Even Trump admits that.

This part of the self defence drip feed narrative interests me.

On a general level, how many battered women who have endured years of abuse and then snap and retaliate, ending their abusers lives have been shown mercy because of their PTSD? Or have they suffered doubling down of abuse via the justice system, because it's not ladylike to practise self defence regardless of the provocation?

There should be mitigation for all, or none at all?

Personally I think each case should be handled on an individual basis, and proprtionately, but if the mindset here is that this poor agent was suffering and acted from a place of mental instability, the whole system is to blame for letting him have a gun and putting him in "triggering" situations.

If only Trump and his people WOULD act on facts. Dangerously, for the entire world, that hasn't been their modus opernadi to date, and doesn't look like it will be in this tragedy.

Well, the truth is, we will never know whether she thought she was in danger, because she is dead and therefore can't tell her side of the story.

I don't agree that she put others in danger. The ICE officer was the only one putting anyone in danger as far as I can see.

When you say that people need to leave ICE alone...is that because they may assassinate anyone who protests against them?

Absolutely. If someone is mentally unstable and prone to overreact to triggers, then don't give them a gun and don't put them in potentially triggering situations.

Yes but I can see how the death penalty can be justified. I can’t see it with unborn babies in the same way. So I can understand it better on one side. The right’s position is that the West is being corrupted by the undesirable aspects of overseas countries. In the same way presumably they feel the same way about us (as is their right).

I haven’t read every comment on these threads but one thing I haven’t seen discussed is whether the driver would have been aware of the agent who shoots. She is being shouted at by another agent in a balaclava who was attempting to force open her door. I would expect she would have been focussed on that. Meanwhile the shooter walks from the back of the car along the passenger side and around the front as she drives off. If I had a balaclava’d man yelling at me from the left and trying to force open my car, I’m not sure I would be focussed on what was happening at the right or front of the vehicle.

Anyway, as the NY Times and other analysis shows she didn’t drive at him. Also, after the first shot the shooter ran a couple of paces alongside the car to shoot twice more through the open window. I can’t see how this can be judged as anything other than murder but in Trump’s America who knows.

Tiny minority...on the fringes and in no position of influence in any serious political party.
I know plenty of left leaning people & not one believes or supports any of your statements.

You mention the Left supporting Russia, well its far more likely that those on the Right support Putin, in so far as they support his actions in Ukraine, see him as a "Strong man"
Both Trump and Farage have at various times spoke up for Putin and justified his actions, the right supports the butchering of 70k Gazans.

The US hasn't got involved in Venezuela because of human rights but because of oil
The MAGA Right, want to take over Greenland, hang the consequence and its the 'right that, also support execution of protestors.

It was the right that gunned down a UK MP not so long ago, its the 'right supporting Tommy Robinson... both here and in the US.

It was the left that got women autonomy over their own bodies, its the 'right that wishes to remove this.

Death Penalty? well i can see some circumstances for it but the reality is, even in so called cut n dried cases, errors either deliberate or accidental can occur plus their is the mental stability of people to consider.
Juries may also be reluctant to convict if they know they will be killed.

Then there is the fact that it would be the state telling someone else "You must now execute this person" wont be you doing this will it?

.

Yes, the right whinge. It's a play on words for right wing cause all they ever do is whinge.

On this thread there's plenty of comments that amount to "Well, if she didn't want killed she shouldn't have been there" or "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". Elsewhere on SM, there's significantly worse.

I don't really have a problem with it tbh, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy considering how upset your lot get when one of your own is the victim and people aren't nice about it.

You are MAGA if you believe it is okay for an American citizen to be shot three times in the head for failing to get out of a car.

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as that any more.

The left were the better side until about 1980, then something went badly wrong and they’ve been fighting to regress us under the umbrella of diversity and inclusion ever since.

When you say that people need to leave ICE alone...is that because they may assassinate anyone who protests against them?

It’s because they are going against the will of the American voter. I voted for DJT. Congress passed legislation to fund ICE. But these types think they have the right to obstruct lawful proceedings that the rest of us voted for.

They are like those anti-abortion protestors that think they have the right to chain themselves to clinic doors to ‘save babies’. All emotion, no sense.

Peaceful protest can be disruptive and unlawful. It often is. The fact something is unlawful does not make it de facto violent.

The important principle is that here - and in the US, it seems - authorities can only kill where they have a reasonable belief that it is the only way to prevent someone from being seriously harmed. Breaking the law or not doing what you’re told in itself does not meet the threshold. So all the picking apart of whether it’s legal to block traffic or whether this woman was more or less involved in anti-ICE activism is irrelevant.

I’d agree with you except you forgot to mention that the communists/socialists too absolutely do also ‘go’ for people in absolutely horrific ways.

Can you elaborate on this, please? What is regressive about diversity?

NB: biological sex is not an ethnicity, religion, sexuality or any other factor of diversity; the trans issue is not a left vs right issue; the left, for the most part, are as equally horrified as the right. Also, the Tories have as much trouble distinguishing men from women as Labour does.

So people should not be permitted to protest against an elected government? That's an interesting stance.

Out of interest, what do you think about the Capitol rioters who didn't like the 2020 election result? They were also going against the will of American voters. Do you think they should have been summarily executed as well?

Exactly.

Am I ‘MAGA’ because I think people who have no right to be in a country should be deported? Just for that belief?

You're far right and v callous if you support mass deportations.

People being deported have been allowed to stay in the US for decades, have married US citizens, have children...

All can be deported.

Your justification is exactly the same as the Nazi supporters also used in the 1930s... "oh they shouldn't be here" (they didn't start with Gas Chambers)

They then turned a blind eye when the deportations stopped and murder began.

The murder part is now beginning in the USA & its being justified by your President.

Yep, Ringo’s repeated comments about not obstructing ICE officers just keeps bringing to mind those images of men stacked up on bunks or cross legged on the floor in El Salvadorean prisons. This is what Ringo voted for, obviously thinks is a suitable way to deal with fellow human beings and is so adamant nobody should question or protest, with similar brutality meted out to those that do quite acceptable.

"These types". Do you mean types like Trump, inciting insurrection?

People have the lawful right to (peacefully) protest anything they want to, including passionately expressing their point of view, even if others may view it as offensive. It is hypocritical to say they should respect the law on one hand (re voting) but not exercise their rights (to protest) on the other.

Under the Constitution, people also have the right to be free from excessive force on the part of the police. I have yet to see an argument that convincingly illustrates how the agent murdering an unarmed, peaceful protester (who was, arguably, following the instructions of another agent to move her vehicle) by shooting her 3 times in the face could be seen as anything other than excessive force.