To think my SIL is the most selfish mother ever

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SIL is pregnant with her fourth child. She lives in a two bedroom council flat and is on Universal Credit. From what we can tell, she’s only having a fourth because her youngest is turning three soon and UC will start pressuring her to go back to work.
I’m really confused about how she’s going to manage four kids in that tiny flat. Right now, the youngest sleeps in the same room as her and her husband, and the other two boys share a bunk bed in the second bedroom.
The thing is, and I would never say this lightly, she’s not a good mum. She spends most of her time on her phone while the kids run amok until she throws iPads at the,, and they’re really badly behaved- they can’t go out in public without causing a scene. Sometimes she even neglects them. Her oldest is six and honestly the most disrespectful kid I’ve ever met.
On top of that, she and her husband constantly ask my husband for money because they can barely afford the three kids they already have.
Her husband is a deliveroo driver and she doesn't work.
AIBU for thinking it’s selfish to be having a fourth when she clearly can’t handle the kids she already has and keeps relying on my husband for help?

'She gets'; surely it's 'THEY get'?

Oh I seen the update - two boys and a girl already. Other girl on the way.

Congratulations to the family.

I can't talk seeing as I chose 4 myself so 🤷

Thank goodness the 2 child cap is getting lifted 🙌 children need support, not plunged into more poverty.

Anyone who had kids in the last few years was well aware that they only got benefits for 2 kids. If they knew their kid would be raised in poverty, they shouldn’t have kept having more kids. Lifting the cap is just going to make it worse. Educated parents with good jobs have one or two kids, whilst uneducated low income families have several kids and we end up with a society where education is less valued as too many people grow up with a benefits mindset.

How about low income families make the same choice as everyone not on benefits, and only have the kids they can afford.

There is a benefit cap. So unless you work or claim some disability benefit you won't be better off so the lazy and reckless won't be better off.

I wouldn't give them a penny, they made the kids, they pay for them.

Congratulations? Really?

Or your partner earns enough that you don't have any work obligations.

Make it worse how

cos on average it costs £1,050 per month to raise a kid and UC pay you £293 for any extra kids

so tell me again how it’s going to be worse cos they sure as hell are not raking it in.

this is another goady thread to bash folks on UC

Yes it annoys me so much

Tough! Not at the cost of the taxpayer. Maybe SIL and BIL should be all-consumed by working out how they can both get full time jobs and pay for their own lives and their kids lives, with a top-up of UC if in low-paid work.

i totally agree with you, it is selfish. especially if she is asking you and your husband for hand outs. she don't want to go to work so that's why she is having another baby. she is probably hoping the council will move her in to a bigger house as they will see it as over crowded.

personally i would say no to any amount of money she asks for, tell them you can't.

id stop going out with them and the kids if that's the way they behave. i gove my daughter her iPad all the time it what she likes to do she don't like playing with toys. the toys she got for christmas are still in the boxes.

but yeah cut all financial contact with them she will soon get bored of asking if the answer is always no.

It’s not about having a 4th kid to get more money in this instance. It’s about selfishly having a 4th kid to avoid work. Whilst working people are having to pay for SIL, BIL and their kids lives.

I’m not against UC for those needing a top-up if in full-time work on low wages, but I am against UC for those who can work but won’t (having children is not a reason not to work) and expect working people to pay for them - now that’s a p**s take.

I also supported the two child benefits cap because that is something people can control unlike those who fall on hard times through no fault of their own eg ill health or job loss etc.

In my opinion it is more than fair for the taxpayer to pay for two and if you have more that's on you. Maybe they could make an exception for twins.

It is deeply irresponsible for people to keep popping them out when they can't/choose not to look after existing children very well.

The people who are always screeching about the birth rate being too low are bonkers if they think breeding an army of welfare children parented by screens, fed on UPF and starting school in nappies with no social skills is a good idea.

4 children is rough tough work. She has made a silly decision. I grew up as the eldest of 4 and my mum worked exceptionally hard to do everything she possibly could for us and it was really hard for her.

If you can’t manage multiple children and a job and need the money from working then it’s your responsibility to have less children or improve your financial circumstances.

Lots of people are choosing to have one child nowadays because they know they can give one child a good life but would be financially stretched at two.
The UK’s fertility rate is 1.41 and below replacement level, lots of women are choosing to have kids when they are older so they can focus on their career and are financially stable and don’t have to rely on benefits.

No one is owed the right to have kids and if you can’t afford to give them a good life it’s selfish to bring them into the world then expect handouts.

It’s very emotive language to say women are “forced” back to work when their child is 3.
Plenty of women are keen to go back to work and gain some independence again, all the stay at home mums I know struggled at some point with feeling isolated and overwhelmed and there have been hundreds of posts on mumsnet from women who couldn’t cope and the advice was mainly to go back to work.
I’m sure there are women who would love to work less or stay at home full time but it’s up to themselves and the father of the children to fund that and not tax payers, it’s sheer entitlement to suggest otherwise!

Benefits aren’t there to give you a decent life as a stay at home parent, it’s not the 1950s anymore and most women work now, if you wanted to have one parent stay at home then it’s up to you to make sure you were financially stable enough to manage off one income without hand outs.
Can you imagine if everyone took the same attitude? Thats probably what led tax credits to be scrapped - people taking the piss!

I couldn’t have children and when I was made redundant after working 60 hours a week with a disability I struggled to get another job with the same amount of hours and pay.
I went to my local council for help with my partner and the woman there was sympathetic but basically said that we were entitled to nothing and if we were made homeless I might get some temporary accommodation but my DP could possibly end up homeless as he wasn’t vulnerable or a priority and there was a housing shortage, as we were leaving she said “have you considered that if you had kids things would be different…”

Even if I could have had a baby I think it’s wrong to bring another life into the world just to improve my own circumstances when I had nothing to offer a child.
I understand the reasons for removing the two - child limit on UC with the declining birth rate but I think the only way it’s going to encourage people to have more children is if they feel they will benefit financially or it’ll delay them going back to work. It will just end up with more families like the OP’s SIL claiming because it’s basically offering financial reward for having more babies!

This!

this is partly why society is the way it is,

Yes she is selfish .
im having a 4th and was a planned decision made after we moved to a big enough home for its rooms to anyone , bigger car and make sure we could still afford holidays and stuff o give all kids the same .
A child is notsomething to have in a whim . She was selfish the moment she had a 3rd child without enough room and finances

Do you understand UC and working cos if you can work and don’t fill out that journal you get sanctioned.

if no job they stick you on courses that don’t help either or not worth the paper they are written on.

I agree it’s foolish well outright stupid to have another child whilst money is already tight with him being a driver and most likely not full time and her not working.

but folks think wrongly the lassies will be popping em out for the benefits when in reality they are putting themselves into poverty and we still have a benefit cap too boot.

if the youngest is nearly 3 there will be minimal nappies needed, it’s not like a newborn going through loads of them. If she doesn’t work she’s got plenty of time to try and toilet train them too.

Again. This is about being work-shy. 4th kid to avoid getting a job to pay for her own life and that of her children. So she pops out another so UC don’t force her to get a job. In 2 years time, she’ll plan the 5th one no doubt if she’s young enough; to avoid work for yet another 3 years. The extra benefits for each child is just a bonus - maybe the council will chuck in a bigger house for them too.

She’s able to work so should! Having kids is no reason not to work. And it’s an absolute p**s take to have kids whilst not working and claiming benefits when she’s already receiving hand-outs from working people. These benefits are for those who have fallen on hard-times, not a chosen life-style. And lastly, OP is already contributing to SIL and BIL’s living expenses through their taxes but they then think they have the right to borrow/ask for some of OPs and DHs net wages too - which I bet they never get back!

I thought this too. Why is your sil getting all the blame? They both sound awful. The kind of people that let life just happen with no plan or accountability. If you think they are so terrible just tell them.

Probably shuffling paper in an office.

It just gets better......
Those poor kids