To think my SIL is the most selfish mother ever

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SIL is pregnant with her fourth child. She lives in a two bedroom council flat and is on Universal Credit. From what we can tell, she’s only having a fourth because her youngest is turning three soon and UC will start pressuring her to go back to work.
I’m really confused about how she’s going to manage four kids in that tiny flat. Right now, the youngest sleeps in the same room as her and her husband, and the other two boys share a bunk bed in the second bedroom.
The thing is, and I would never say this lightly, she’s not a good mum. She spends most of her time on her phone while the kids run amok until she throws iPads at the,, and they’re really badly behaved- they can’t go out in public without causing a scene. Sometimes she even neglects them. Her oldest is six and honestly the most disrespectful kid I’ve ever met.
On top of that, she and her husband constantly ask my husband for money because they can barely afford the three kids they already have.
Her husband is a deliveroo driver and she doesn't work.
AIBU for thinking it’s selfish to be having a fourth when she clearly can’t handle the kids she already has and keeps relying on my husband for help?

I think you should ask you husband to speak to her husband about the concerns you are sharing! It is possible he is struggling with everything too. He might appreciate the support. I know when my husband was struggling with issues, quite serious ones, he genuinely appreciated my brother getting involved to support him. Guys are sometimes reluctant to reach out to other men, especially when they feel like they are failing.

I hate people like your SIL and her husband. I would be having a come to Jesus meeting with my husband about financial support, their feckless arses wouldn't be getting a single penny of my money and I would also limit how much time I spent around them as I wouldn't want my kids picking up their kids' bad attitudes.

No, the mother and father are both equally responsible for having kids they cannot afford and cannot house.

The only person who is wrong here is the OP because she solely blames the woman.

Maybe the OP's husband uses his own money to help out the family?
So no need to go to Jesus.

You're right, but every penny your DH gives her increases the chances of there eventually being a fifth child. Unless she really feels the effect of her choices, she won't make different ones.

I know someone with 3 siblings who was brought up in a two bedroom flat. Parents made a tiny 3rd bedroom by cutting into the parent bedroom. Perhaps you could suggest this to them. Both of the children’s rooms had bunk beds and were really small. But they were well brought up. If you’re concerned about the welfare of the children make an anonymous referral to children’s services if things get worse.

Really? I’d like to see the evidence for that. Can you provide it?

Unless the OP's husband has a LOT of his own money, I would still not be happy with that. I would be very clear that any money going to the SIL would be out of his personal budget for treats for himself and no double dipping, so say he wants to buy himself some golf clubs or a bicycle, and instead gives his sister money, he doesn't then buy the bike anyway out of the household budget.

And there’s the rub. It sounds like she neither wants to parent or work. It doesn’t help that her partner is an ex-felon and has very limited choices of employment. They only ones I feel sorry for are the children being raised in such a household.

There will be many parents who live in such cramped homes but still manage to be good, loving and caring parents.

My god, you're right. I hate people like that so much. It's why I was livid at Reeves for getting rid of the two child cap, which was one of the very few things that the Tories actually got right!

I was surprised too and googled. 1 in 4 UK adults has a criminal record. Goodness. Unless they include speeding tickets?

Well unless he's never out with the children, he's not that involved if they're running amok and no-one is teaching them how to behave.

I've put YABU because this is a waste of your energy. Her life sounds miserable. It's not a life many people would choose if they had other options.
Just be thankful you've got more self esteem and more imagination.
It's sad for her kids but hopefully they'll make the best of their lives anyway.
My DH was born to a teenage mum on benefits who never worked a day in her life but he's got a masters degree and works so hard and is a wonderful father. Hopefully those kids will get out of that environment

Sounds like my DP’s sister. It’s infuriating and really upsetting seeing children being created with no thought to their well-being or their siblings who are already overcrowded and not looked after properly. Any reasoning with them or showing disapproval of their choices goes completely over their heads.

If she’s “the most selfish mother ever” does the same go for the dad? It does take 2 to make a baby after all, and they’re both raising these children and responsible for housing them and teaching them right from wrong.

I think it’s a shame btw when children go without- not enough attention, space, consideration.

Loads of people with criminal record can get good jobs, we dont have felonies in the uk. This post doesn’t seem to ring true.

Btw, you need to have a conversation with your husband and agree on a zero tolerance policy on giving them any handouts, at all. With a 4th baby on the way, the requests will come thick and fast from them, so best to put a stop to it now. In my experience- I have a relative who had/has their hand out constantly, and an expectation that other people should help them out “because we’re faaaamily- it does get easier the more you say no to them.

Rachel Reeves will be overjoyed!

I wonder how many of those kids will grow up to spend a lifetime of welfare, because that's the pattern they've learnt? Has anyone done any statistics on the Welfare State, does anyone know?

Why are you derailing the thread & making it into a benefit bashing post. There’s plenty on here already. 🥱

Precisely.

YABU for blaming just the mum. It takes two people to make a baby.

YABU if you are just watching them neglect the DC and haven't reported to SS.

Should the title not say sister in law and brother why is it all on your sister Inlaw

Maybe because it is part of a bigger picture and the Welfare system desperately needs to be reformed?

If you are a carer for a disabled child you don't have to find work until your youngest is 13 (I think)

I would ask SS to investigate. It’s shocking having another child under those circumstances.
the children would be better off if foster care learning how to behave.
I’m sure she could get a job if she wanted but doesn’t sound as though her husband would be any better at caring for the children.