Asked to give up my seat on bus

[Motnight]

On a packed London bus. A pregnant young woman has asked for my seat (only know that she is pregnant from her badge).I've said no, can she ask one of the younger more able bodied people sitting opposite or behind me? There are at least 4 people that are in their 20s / 30s and look physically fit sitting down.

She looked very shocked but just said ok. I am in my early 60s. I fell on ice a few days ago and am feeling a bit more wobbly than usual. Was I unreasonable?

Yes that is my experience of the underground. People will stand for pregnant women, elderly and children. I think it is important to stand for children as they can get squashed when standing up. One of the reasons my husband always offers to stand is that he is tall and can always hang on to one of the grab things that comes down from the ceiling.

I think she was a bit cheeky choosing a 60yo lady to give up her seat if there were younger ones around.

Not sure why so many people are making up that you were sitting in a priority seat.

Like you op, I would be second guessing myself on this. You sound a lot like me, mature, usually give up your seat without even being asked and never usually taking one. A number of years ago I sustained a non visible but very painful and life altering injury and then started to take seats.
Have seen plenty of ladies with those badges, never known one ask for a seat and you weee right to decline and indicate the younger people.
she was chancing it with you as the one most likely- well done for sticking to your seat and not letting the guilt trip you from it

Exactly. Haven’t rtft but so far there are a frustrating number of posters projecting their own experiences onto the OP. Eg it’s irrelevant people pushed past you when you were pregnant unless one of the people doing the pushing was actually this 60odd year old wobbly OP!

Find this such a weird thread. Someone is allowed to ask a question or make a request, you’re allowed to say no (or yes, if you want).

it’s an odd thing to ruminate over and discuss at length afterwards.

I don’t think that people should stand in rush hour for elderly people. They have the choice not to travel then if they find it difficult

I suspect you'll feel differently if/when you start to have physical problems @Changename12 . You don't sound like the sort of person who'll want to be confined to their sofa, rather than inconvenience the person whose seat you might need.

For many older and/or less mobile people in London, public transport is their only option to get out and about. I strongly disagree with your stance that they should just stay home

I'm just talking about myself.
60s is my parents age
I can't imagine asking someone close to my parents age to get up
Not happening

Firstly — a badge? I’ve genuinely never heard of a pregnant woman wearing a badge, so that’s new to me.

Secondly, I don’t think the woman was being unreasonable — but equally, I don’t think you were either. The fact that you posted to ask for opinions says a lot. You’d clearly been thinking about it and just wanted some clarification.

From my perspective, there’s no negative feedback for you here.

Perhaps she did first. She chose a woman probably because she thought she’d understand.

Of course it makes a significant difference. Nausea while standing on a bus is intensified because you're lurching around due to a higher center of gravity. Your body has to constantly adjust to the movement, and your higher center of gravity makes it harder to balance. This creates greater sensory conflict between what your inner ear feels and what your eyes perceive. For pregnant women, nausea is already heightened due to hormonal changes, and standing increases the discomfort by amplifying the motion's effect, making it worse compared to sitting, where the lower center of gravity offers more stability and reduces disorientation. If a person is prone to motion sickness and is also pregnant, it's even worse. It's basic biology.

If you are able to give up a seat without any detriment to yourself, then do it. If you need a seat for whatever reason, you don’t have to justify it, or explain yourselves. Whilst pregnancy in the later stages is visible, other people’s ailments may not be. I am elderly myself but fit, so it’s a no brainer that I would offer up my seat, but I would feel no guilt at staying put if I needed it.

OP was not in a priority seat anyway, but even if she was, pregnancy does not trump anything else. There is a real issue on London buses with women with prams refusing to fold them down to allow wheelchair users on. Wheelchairs have legal priority but they very often cannot get on the bus. I got into a conversation with a young girl in a wheelchair at a bus stop recently who told me of the many instances she had with drivers refusing to let her on because they would not tell the pram owners to move. She had taken to wearing a camera on one route it was so bad, to prove to the bus operator it was happening. This issue was recently covered by local news in London, it’s a big issue. Drivers refuse to enforce the law, even though they know they should. Women can fold the pram down. Wheelchair users cannot get out of their chairs to do that.

Just because you have a child, born or temporarily residing in a stomach, doesn’t top other people’s needs, particularly if they are enshrined in law.

No you can’t tell by looking but I would think it is less likely that someone in their 20s/30s has health issues than someone in their 60s or older.

If people who are able to stand see someone who is less able to do so, they should offer their seat. It should be the case that those in priority seats are those that actually need them, and signage is worded to the effect that you should cede the seat if necessary/possible.
Whilst absolutely, someone can and should ask if they need a seat, equally, those like the young man in this scenario shouldn't have to wait to be asked.

You assume every middle aged woman must have experienced pregnancy? Some of us haven’t, for all sorts of reasons and it can be hurtful when people assume you know all about pregnancy just because of your age.

I’m 64, have no problems standing on buses, but would readily offer my seat to a visibly pregnant woman, or a non visibly pregnant woman who asked. But the OP needed the seat too and was not unreasonable.

What’s all this pregnancy martyrdom about? For the majority of women, pregnancy is hard at some point at least, whether that’s nausea at the beginning, PGP, or something else. Nothing wrong with wearing a badge to let others know that you’re in the need of a seat. Just as I find nothing wrong with people wearing the universal ‘please offer me a seat’ badge if they are in the need for one for reasons that aren’t obvious.

Of course he's an exception 🙄

I don't believe you truly believe that the majority of 60+ people are out there running and hill walking on a weekly basis.

This may be caused because they didnt get the treatment they wanted or needed themselves in pregnancy, so they brain creates this buffer that makes them think no pregnant woman is in nedd of a seat. It spares them to acknowledge that they were not treated well which may be too panifull to realize.

The young man wasn’t in a priority seat and you couldn’t tell be looking at her that the young woman needed a seat.

Yes I agree (can’t find the pp to quote), and I think what the OP was saying was more ‘the lady would have been better to try the younger people, who could of course refuse if they had some hidden issue’, rather than saying ‘they were definitely fine to stand up simply because they looked 20s/30s’.

No I don’t believe the majority of 60+ people are out running everyday, but there are a significant number who keep themselves fit by excercise and yes some run. It is not an exception.

No I don’t think people with poor mobility should stay at home and I certainly hope I don’t. I just think elderly people who need to sit down should not travel on public transport during the rush hours unless it cannot be avoided. Most retired people do travel off peak anyway as it is cheaper.

I would go as far as saying most of my 60 year old friends are pretty fit. Maybe the all the "elderly" 60 years just move in different circles to me.

I wouldn't assume that they personally have been pregnant, but presumably at some time in their life they would have been around other pregnant friends and relatives and can see how hard it can be at times.

I also didn't say the OP was unreasonable in needing the seat, but it was more her response and also attitude towards the pregnant woman which wasn't great. If I was sick or pregnant and they didn't realise and a disabled person asked for my seat, I wouldn't just say no and say they should ask someone else, I'd kindly say I'm really sorry I can't (if I didn't feel like I could), but I'd see what I could do to help them secure them an alternative seat. I have actually asked on people's behalves on several occassions if I've been able and standing up and noticed someone who needed it and those sitting down didn't.

I don't think her being/looking early in her pregancy is a sure sign she doesn't need a seat. My friends usually well managed type 1 diabetes went haywire during her pregancy, especially in response to her morning sickness and she had lots of wobbly spells and was generally in need of extra care. Looking at her alone you wouldn't have known though.

The other thing I was wondering was whether she possibly deliberately walked past the priority seats because she assumed those are all filled by people in need and picked the first friendly "non priority" face she spotted. OP was right to say no, but I don't think the pregnant lady was necessarily wrong to ask.

It’s not always so easy to organise your day even if you’re not working. What if you have a morning medical appointment?

Reminds me of when I used the bus to travel to and from work at one time. My work was near a large arts/theatre venue. The bus was more or less empty when I boarded it on the way home, but invariably when it stopped outside the venue, there would be a huge crowd of pensioners fresh out of the matinee and the bus would get packed. Judging from the glances I got I was obviously expected to give up my seat but to be honest I resented it, I’d been working all day while they were out gallivanting, and what’s more I’d paid for my seat and they had their free buss passes!