To think, actually, hard work doesn’t pay off?

[AkaBaka]

I have had a typical millennial experience. Raised by a single mother in a council house and wanted better, so worked hard at school, went to university, graduated into a recession, built up a career, and bought a house. Am now scraping by in a similar sized house to my childhood home, raising my kids in a similar way as my mother did in terms of hobbies and lifestyle.

I have stepchildren who, much as I love them and they have many wonderful qualities, are lazy and unmotivated with little drive. I am forever telling them that hard work pays off.

But does it? For their generation, especially for non-academic kids like them, there seems little point in striving. Now I have kids of my own, I’m seeing the benefit of working fewer hours with less stress over a “successful career” that doesn’t even give me a very comfortable lifestyle.

AIBU to think hard work doesn’t pay off?

The academic route doesn’t necessarily pay out but that doesn’t mean hard work doesn’t pay! I’m also a millennial and it can be a bit disaffecting to see people who avoided uni and have done as well if not a lot better than me! If my kids weren’t interested in uni I certainly wouldn’t push that on them as the only viable route. People can do very well if they’re happy to learn a trade or get on the career ladder (and housing ladder) early.

Electricians, plumbers, builders etc are all in high demand, they don’t require a uni degree and hard work pays off. I also had a friend who started working in an Estate Agents straight from college, got a joint mortgage with her sister and was mortgage free on her own home by 35.

Uni is worthwhile if you have a specific career in mind but otherwise I wouldn’t encourage racking up the debt for the sake of it.

Yes I completely agree. I wouldn’t encourage my SC to go to university.

But at the moment, they don’t work hard at anything and have no passions or plans. I’m at a loss as to how to motivate them and worried for where they’ll end up.

Statistically, by every metric, parts of the population who go on to tertiary education will do better financially than those who don’t. A person with a degree, on average earns twice as much as a person with no qualifications or with GCSEs.

There will always be anomalies on an anecdotal evidence, but bear in mind, in order for those average statistics to show this, for every unqualified person who bucks the system there are either A) a few unqualified people who do much worse than their peers or B) a few qualified people who do much better.

My sister and I took very different paths to get to where we are. She left school with very little and worked her way up, I did a degree. It is now only in our 50s that we have reached parity in salaries. Hers came because she had the benefit of being able to work in, then take over my father’s business. We have both worked hard for what we have, but her path has definitely been harder than mine. I subsidised her financially quite a bit when she was younger. I owned property before she did, could afford things like holidays etc. And that was even with my student loans.

There is no wrong path, people can and do get to where they want to be without a degree. But to suggest if you are capable of going to Uni, you shouldn’t because it is a worthless endeavour, and relying on a minimum wage job, topped up by income related benefits is a viable alternative, isn’t accurate.

This.

Some people inherit houses and money so they can set themselves up and have more choices. Others don't and have to work hard for everything.

Sitting around on benefits isn't the answer though.

Considering income alone as your only source of money, I think hard work used to provide rewards, now it just prevents deprivation. So it pays off in that you aren't living in poverty but very often it doesn't provide you with the rewards and luxuries that previous generation could have expected.

Same 10 years ago. I lived at home to attend an unpaid apprenticeship, but 3 months is not enough time to make the industry contacts you need. Unless you are an incredibly skilled networker, in which case thats more about personality than hard graft. That soft skill - charismatic pushiness - will get you much further alone than experience or talent.

Motivation needs to be intrinsic. Other than talking openly about how you’ve personally found work to be satisfying and how it’s given you confidence and choices in life, the main thing is probably to set clear expectations and boundaries. Ie that they’ll be expected to support themselves as adults once they’re no longer in full time education. It’ll be totally up to them what kind of life they arrange for themselves in full awareness that you won’t be funding them to laze around at home.

I think attitudes to degrees and indeed masters can be quite odd. They in no way pay back immediately. I am a highly paid professional and didn’t become that until c. 10 years after I graduated, and with professional qualifications. I don’t get people who say “I did a masters and have a minimum wage job”- what’s that got to do with the masters?!! A masters doesn’t get you a well paid job, you get a well paid job.

well paid jobs come from work performance , not academic performance (that is of course a way of getting your foot in the door)

Good work performance does often mean hard work but it also means being smart, agile , looking for and taking opportunities and making contacts.

a degree is such a small part of life and I find it really surprising that any millennial did one expecting it to lead to “something” on its own (I obviously exclude degrees that do lead to a pathway here- medical etc- but even then, they only get you into entry level. You get yourself into the high paid part)

I completely get what you mean. A degree doesn’t really mean anything any more. I worked hard but I didn’t do the right degree, graduated during a recession and now have a job where it’s entirely irrelevant. I know people who left school without a single gcse who earn far more than me because of their chosen path. I will use this experience to ensure DD has a solid path if she wants further education to make sure it is worth it.

I do work hard now and I could progress that way but I wasted a lot of time at uni and after with the recession.

Don’t fall into the trap of thinking trades are good or well paid jobs.

if you have the choice between a electrician on site or a building surveyer with a degree, go for the latter everytime. Better employment terms, better long term outcomes, more highly paid, better working conditions and better longevity. Retire at 65 with a big pension vs being medically retried at 55 with a broken body and half a pension.

the only people who think trades are good jobs are those who have no experience of both sides.

For a start, I'm not sure why you equate "hard work" only with university and some sort of professional "city" type job. I know ots of people who work hard but not this route.

So my first point is that hard work, whether you're a plumber or a banker, is almost always going to pay out better than NOT working hard in the same career/job.

It is true that hard work alone is NOT enough. There's an element of luck and decision making that are intertwined from what career you choose to who you marry, that all impact things.

But I think it's interesting you think your hard work hasn't paid off. It seems to me that if you relied on benefits in the same way your mum did, your children would have a much poorer quality of life than you did, or than they do now. The reality is that 30 years ago, benefits were sufficient to live okay. Minimum wage jobs were sufficient to live. People in relatively low paying jobs could buy houses etc. That has all changed. So sadly, your hard work has paid off... but only to give you the quality of life that was provided by the State 30 years ago.

I live in a neighbourhood where all the people who've lived here for 25+ years are "blue collar" workers and anyone who has moved in in the last 20 or so years are working professional "white collar" workers. The ones who are older could never ever afford the houses they live in if they were starting out in the same careers today.

I am covering that, hence the fact that despite earning loads I’m skint. I’m paying because the services offered by the council are laughable insufficient.

Non academic people who decided on trades instead of uni are actually the ones rolling in cash right now. But that also takes hard work and dedication.

Saying that university isn't the right path for all (or these specific dc) is not the same as saying that they shouldn't work hard. Not at all. The harder they work in a pt job or apprenticeship the likelier they are to get a better job. Nobody wants to take on a junior or apprentice who doesn't work hard.
I did the university route and work in a highly qualified role for a median salary but love my job. My brother worked just as hard as me but very differently, as a kitchen porter to start with and has become a successful chef who can choose where he works and who he works for. Also loves his job.

I think my background motivated me. I was scared to be poor like I knew my mother was. Passing exams and getting praise gave me validation.

For SC, they see their mum, stepdad and uncle (DH’s brother) barely working and really not doing much, yet leading comfortable lives which are very comparable to ours, despite us working all the time.

SC don’t grasp that their lives won’t be subsided like their parents’ generation and I am scared for what that means for them. I won’t be financially supporting them when they’re adults.

Agreed. Working hard in a poorly paid profession may not lead to much of a payback financially.
Not saying that is fair, but there is something about working smarter (pick the right field to start with) rather than just slogging it out relentlessly for something that is never going to lead to higher pay

Teaching. We are desperate for teachers. Yes, it's a horrific amount of hours to work BUT it isn't badly paid.

Guaranteed work until you're 50ish.

Nowadays it is not only « work hard » but « work hard and be smart ». By this I mean: find out career progression, potential earnings not just at the beginning but after 5-10-15y, don’t do something that will probably be obsolete or automated. This type of things.

Hard work doesn’t guarantee you the same or better life quality than your parents but it makes it more likely - keeps you in the race

I completely agree. SC are intelligent, charming and capable. But they don’t work hard at anything and have no motivation and it’s completely at odds to how I was as a child and I’m lost as to how to help them.

I grew up in poverty and worked hard to get a comfortable life now. DH and his brother, SC’s mum and her partner all grew up comfortable and have been financially supported to have a comfortable life now. SC are growing up comfortable but with no work ethic or family support, I can’t see how their lives will work out well (unless they win the lottery or marry very well, but that’s rare).

They don’t want to go to university.

Risk taking pays off.

The vast majority of people follow a very safe route throughout their working life. Hard work might make that route slightly more rewarding but failure to take risks limits opportunities immensely.

By risk taking you significantly increase your chances of stumbling across a fantastic opportunity. All the successful people I know have tales of things not working out but being resilient enough to search out the next opportunity which might pose a better return.

I’ve seen the same in my career. Very able people stuck in 60/70k jobs because they won’t risk a move. Others of a similar ability earning 2,3 or even 4 times as much simply because they took a risk.

This is a different point to your original though. The issue you have here is that your SC are lazy and entitled. And you're worried they're not going to figure it out. Hopefly lthey wil. And then they will have to work, whether that's as a plumber or a lawyer is irrelevant. And your DH should be working to instill this understanding in them now, in an age appropriate way.

If I was doing my time again I'd train in a trade, so that I could then pursue a passion knowing I could earn to back it up or during lean times. I had the absolute privilege as a working class girl to study my passion at uni and I wouldn't change it for the world. But my passion didn't equal a job unless you stayed in academia. It has however given my life joy and meaning and purpose, so i would never discourage any kid from doing the same.

A trade then. Same situation with plumbers / electricians. My lovely plumber did an apprenticeship straight out of school, was self employed by 22, now at almost 30 owns a better house than me. He trained to become a gas engineer on the back of his plumbing and is booked up months in advance.